Ikea Cheap Rubbish Material?

[paulrockliffe]

I'm not sure this is exactly 'wood'working, but those cheap book cases that Ikea do, with the thick sides that weigh very little, can you buy boards of the stuff?

I want to make something similar, more a practical thing than a design piece, and want to be able to quickly and cheaply build some 40mm or so thick walls to edge veneer, solid anytihng is going to be too heavy and expensive, faced frames too time consuming, so the Ikea stuff seems a good option. No idea what to search for though!

Thanks

 

[Tetsuaiga]

Probably, but where and what price i'm not sure.

You can get mdf, chipboard, plywood very easily though which sounds like what you're after.

Maybe this is what you are after

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Beech-Ef ... 9000036499

but its only 15mm thick,

 

[Jacob]

PS google 'honeycomb composite panels' - lots of alternatives, cheapest probably to buy lightweight doors and cut them up and add edge details.

I guess you mean these (£75!!)

Why not just buy the IKEA stuff and veneer it? You won't get anything cheaper, or better value.
Apparently tarting up Ikea stuff is booming cottage industry e.g. applying better finishes, fabric and upholstery to Poang chairs etc.
We just bought a GJÖRA bed - ridiculously cheap. Next; paint it , making hangings for top and bottom, storage boxes for underneath and so on.
The mattress was rated by Which as superior to some which cost 10 times as much.
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!

 

[AndyT]

As well as selling the shelves, Ikea also have a range of bigger pieces, sold as table or desk tops to go over legs or trestles. Linnmon is one, there may be others. Described as fibreboard top and bottom with paper infill.
You may be able to buy extra shelves on their own, even if they are not listed separately in the catalogue.

 

[thick_mike]

If you visit Bargain Corner, they sell distressed furniture at 75%+ discount. I have picked up sheet goods in the past for peanuts because it had a slight ding on one corner. Some of their sheet goods are great quality, others not so much.

 

[novocaine]

more wood in that bed frame than an oak furniture land solid oak bed frame.

the manufacturing method used for this stuff makes it impossible to sell in sheet form, each panel is built not cut and edged, it's cool to see, basically the bottom and top are cut and bonded to a frame, the sides are bonded to the frame, the infill is added then the top is bonded on before it's all warmed up to set. the factory smells like a cardboard box factory rather than a woodshop.

went and found this, sorry it's not in English, but jump to 36 minutes for the lack coffee table.

http://tb3.com/tesla/ch2007/images/BH_0186.jpg

 

[Jacob]

Something very like it is available in sheet form; "honeycomb composite panel" in all sorts of grades and combinations - or ready made as doors etc. Saw it up, build in an edge detail.
One of Wickes cheapest doors would probably do for a trial run.

 

[Jacob]

more wood in that bed frame than an oak furniture land solid oak bed frame. .....

I think probably very economical in timber use - engineered - lots of small stuff glued up with finger joints. And laminated so the joints are staggered. Just had a look - longest pieces in the whole structure are about 600mm, most of them a lot shorter
Making it from solid wood certainly would be wasteful and I doubt you could buy enough sawn dry beech for the price of this finished object

PS http://tb3.com/tesla/ch2007/images/BH_0186.jpg interesting link to bloke dressed up in wire mesh! What's this about then - have you accidentally revealed some sort of fetish? :lol:

 

[novocaine]

ah balls, no that's from another site where a friend is making himself a heated jacket with wire.

correct link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du2jj4BHJg4&t=2383s

I'm aware of how it's made Jacob, still more solid wood than oak furniture land.
my bed is from Ikea, it's pine, the rails are solid, the header and footer are panel board. it's simple, it was cheap (I've had it 15+ years), it hasn't died yet and it's been modified every which way from sunday with legs added at one end or the other, 4 posts at one point just because and a fabric head board with lights because I could. I can't knock Ikea for what it is, cheap, fairly well made furniture designed for the masses and produced in sufficient numbers, it isn't bespoke, but it's still ok stuff, that bed is an example of that.

anyways, thread drift, sorry OP.

back on topic, have you seen how Peter Millard made a console table last week? the concept should fit rather well to what you are after.

 

[ED65]

If one of the previous suggestions doesn't fit the bill Paul how about making a torsion box? Classic 'proper' way to make a thick piece if you don't want to laminate up and make it solid.

 

[Jacob]

If one of the previous suggestions doesn't fit the bill Paul how about making a torsion box? Classic 'proper' way to make a thick piece if you don't want to laminate up and make it solid.

Not really "classic" or "proper" , there isn't any particular feature which converts any old box into a torsion box - it's just a trendy term amongst modern woodworkers. It just seems to mean having more stiffening than an empty box. Honeycomb composite is one way of stiffening a box, extra spars could be another.

 

[ED65]

...there isn't any particular feature which converts any old box into a torsion box

Actually there is.

...it's just a trendy term amongst modern woodworkers.

I didn't/don't know any other way to refer to this type of construction. If there were an older term for it (especially a British older term for it) I would use it in preference I assure you, as with cap iron and rear handle instead of chipbreaker or tote.

 

[Jacob]

.......I didn't/don't know any other way to refer to this type of construction. ..........

"Box" will do. Box construction as distinct from solid.
May or may not have additional stiffening but there isn't any particular design detail which makes it a "torsion" box as distinct from any old box.

 

[paulrockliffe]

Thanks, this is all really really useful and that video was really interesting. I enjoyed the picture of the weird man in the mesh suit thing too.

I want to avoid making the panels myself as even if they were faced with 6mm MDF or hardboard of some kind they'd end up quite expensive and time consuming to build, especially if I needed to paint them.

I think the easiest approach may be to look at what Ikea have exactly and whether I can get where I want by modifying their stuff, that's a great suggestion, thanks. If I can get this build very quickly and move on to a more interesting that would be perfect!

We have a conservatory that doesn't get used for anything other than as a hallway into the house, we also don't have loads of storage, so I want to build a 4-bay boot-room sort of thing so everything like coats, shoes and all the baby/kids stuff for outside is organised and stored in the corner of the conservatory. Very much a practical project that just needs to get done as easily as possible while not looking hideous.

 

[thetyreman]

I think it's a false economy trying to create anything made by ikea, personally I really do think you are wasting your time, you can find second hand ikea stuff for very cheap on facebook groups, often even free! it's worth looking.

 

[paulrockliffe]

Quick update, I managed to get 80% of what I was aiming for for half the cost in 20% of the time with done standard IKEA units. They're in add fixed together and to the wall, the next job is to fit them out with hooks and things.

I'm running a batten down the success at the back to screw into to fit hooks across the back, but I don't know how best to fit things to the sides?

I can't easily screw into the sides I don't think as the panels aren't thick enough, will an epoxy glue hold a metal hook on well enough to hold the weight of a rucksack? Will rivets work?

 

[Geoff_S]

How about foam, thin ply sheets and pva? Basically veneered foam.

 

[MusicMan]

If one of the previous suggestions doesn't fit the bill Paul how about making a torsion box? Classic 'proper' way to make a thick piece if you don't want to laminate up and make it solid.

Not really "classic" or "proper" , there isn't any particular feature which converts any old box into a torsion box - it's just a trendy term amongst modern woodworkers. It just seems to mean having more stiffening than an empty box. Honeycomb composite is one way of stiffening a box, extra spars could be another.

Jacob, a torsion box does have a specific meaning (though I grant you it is not always used properly!). It is a box (or tube, the ends don't contribute much) that is closed. Resistance to torsion requires a continuous closed lop of material surrounding the axis of torsion, as far away from the axis as you can get it.

So in rectangular form, the key feature is closing the box with a lid (glued or nailed). It will then have very much more torsional stiffness than if the lid is omitted or not fixed at both long edges. The faces of the box can still have holes in them but there must be a closed circuit of wood all round on average.

Adding a honeycomb inside won't contribute a lot to the torsional or bending stiffness (more to the latter). It will add a lot to resistance to indentation/loads on the surface.

In a woodwork design, I think it is reasonable to use the term when the design needs resistance to twisting.

A shelf doesn't need resistance to twisting, but to bending (sagging). This is achieved by the depth (shelf height). The factor of interest is the cube of the height. So for example, if a shelf is 1 cm deep, doubling the thickness will make it 8 times more resistant to bending. Because of this strong factor, a quite narrow but deep lip at front and back adds a lot to the bending resistance without adding much weight. It also looks deeper.

 

[Jacob]

So any closed box is a torsion box then. That's what I said - the word is redundant. There are no box constructions which aren't so-called torsion boxes. I believe in calling a box a box!
A solid beam will resist torsion better than a box (of same dimensions) but you wouldn't call it a torsion beam.

Adding a honeycomb inside won't contribute a lot to the torsional or bending stiffness (more to the latter).

Oh yes it will. That's what its for. Take it away and you probably have a very flimsy structure.

There's a description here of stressed skin construction, equating it with 'torsion box' and not being very clear about the difference. Probably because there isn't one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsion_box

nb this Wikipedia entry is very skimpy for the simple reason that the term itself is skimpy. If you google 'torsion box' you get more of the same - almost completely confined to the world of amateur woodwork. They keep referring to flatness as though this is a property, but curved box structures are common - aircraft wings being the most spectacular.
The box structure idea is excellent of course and has been widely used, but the term 'torsion' is a red herring.