If you're exhausting air from your DE outside...

[goldeneyedmonkey]

Righto, If you're exhausting air from your DE system outside then how do you deal with the heat lost in the air you're sending out?

If someone could outline what I'd need, or point me to the relevant post?

I'll be running the £1400 cyclone system from Axminster probably.

Thanks in advance_Dan.

 

[Recky33]

You cant, its not possible to heat up the amount of air your extracting as fast as its going out.

Allan

 

[dickm]

You cant, its not possible to heat up the amount of air your extracting as fast as its going out.

Are you sure? Our house has a forced ventilation system, with a heat recovery unit in the loft that warms the incoming air from the outgoing. While the ventilation rate is probably orders of magnitude less than a dust extraction system, I'd have thought that (AT A PRICE!) you could get an air-to-air heat exchanger that would do the job.
I'm guessing that some "green" companies are cashing in on offering such devices for big commercial premises with forced ventilation?

 

[barkwindjammer]

Wouldn't you just duct the exhaust back into the workshop through another filtering set up ?

 

[Shrubby]

Buy a machine that meets european emission standards for wood dust .The exhaust is clean enough to be returned to the workplace
(I've opened a monumental can of worms here)
Matt

 

[goldeneyedmonkey]

The reason that I'd be wanting to exhaust outside is possible is so that every single < 0.1 micron of dust is in fact going outside, I thought it may not be possible to do this without losing all the heat in the 'shop. Therefore I posed this question. I'm fine with just having the exhaust in the 'shop, I just thought that folk might have found a solution to getting every bit of dust out without losing heat. At the moment I've only got a 'shop vac and wear a respirator, so just getting the cyclone is going to be a massive step up in regards to efficiency on the dust front.

Cheers_Dan. D:

 

[ProShop]

At the money your spending you could nearly buy a clean air system that would be more than enough for what your wanting without the heat loss.

 

[CNC Paul]

Dan,

My first thought is to use a heat recovery unit like this http://cart.vacuumsdirect.co.uk/index.p ... nt=35&pg=1 this route will not be cheap. my second thought is to mount the cyclone in a cabinet with one of these http://www.axminster.co.uk/jet-jet-afs- ... prod21189/ mounted in the wall feeding filtered air back into the workshop during the winter and a vent panel on the outside wall for the summer. An even cheaper way would be build the cyclone ito a cabinet and just use the filters from the Jet air filter mounted in the wall.

 

[goldeneyedmonkey]

At the money your spending you could nearly buy a clean air system that would be more than enough for what your wanting without the heat loss.

...clean air system, can you elaborate please?

Paul; I did post about putting one of these Jet Air Filtration Systems in-line with the exhaust of the outlet, and this is where the idea of exhausting outside came from, it was a suggestion that someone came up with (sorry can't remember who), and they said that these jet systems cause turbulence in the air and create more micro-dust than they eliminate. But if they were in-line then I don't see how this could be. Maybe I didn't put 'in-line' in my post. But I think I'm going to go down this route in some respect, the exhaust of the cyclone also filtered with a further Jet system.

Cheers for all the input_Dan

 

[RogerS]

......they said that these jet systems cause turbulence in the air and create more micro-dust than they eliminate. .....

That sounds like tosh to me. For a kick-off, unless they actually sucked air in and spat it out then they wouldn't work at all. By default, doing that will create air turbulence.

Create more dust? How can they 'create' more dust? They aren't cutting, planing, sanding etc. When I'm good, I run it while I'm working. And I leave it on to run for a couple of hours when I leave. The filter gets dirty quite quickly. Which suggests to me that it is doing OK.

 

[goldeneyedmonkey]

Yeah I didn't understand it, unless there is dust right in the incoming air that the Jet has to deal with. But I suppose as long as there isn't dust about in the first place (apart from the small amount that the DE system kicks out the exhaust) then it shouldn't be a problem. I'm going to leave a Jet system running for at least a couple of hours when I leave the 'shop, I've always heard this is good practice for these types of units.

Cheers_Dan.

 

[tomasg]

Their has to be a way if your roof allows it (hammer)
id be intrested to see if anyone made a elevated sealed platform mabye
you might find some more info on it if you googled your query and added
bill pentz along with it
good topic btw

 

[Stoday]

Google "thermal wheel" for air/air heat exchangers.

 

[OLD]

The heat carrying exhaust could be ducted back to the shop via a in line filter (used in air conditioning) so may carry a small amount of fine dust Depending on how good the cyclone was working. Then use a personal positive feed full face mask system and get into a regular habit of cleaning up the shop .A remote on off switching system to only run system when needed would also reduce heat loss.

 

[goldeneyedmonkey]

Google "thermal wheel" for air/air heat exchangers.

Found this, great link;
Thermal wheels sound like a good investment, the Air Plate listed above it sounds good too, as they retain 70% of the heat, the thermal wheels retain even more and use up less space. Both seem like pretty good options. I don't know how effective the whole system would be when running it in the dead of winter. Might have to give that a miss. But for the other 3/4 of the year I reckon they're a damn good idea.

Spot on advice there, Cheers. _Dan.

 

[goldeneyedmonkey]

they don't give any prices on their website mind (wouldn't expect them to), byt they say they're very cost effective/ efficient. I might have to ring them up and see what the sales team can offer.

_Dan

 

[miles_hot]

would be interesting to hear what sort of prices they're talking about. Possibly a little academic as I've already go the Donaldson filter but still interesting

 

[Carlow52]

At the money your spending you could nearly buy a clean air system that would be more than enough for what your wanting without the heat loss.

...clean air system, can you elaborate please?

Paul; I did post about putting one of these Jet Air Filtration Systems in-line with the exhaust of the outlet, and this is where the idea of exhausting outside came from, it was a suggestion that someone came up with (sorry can't remember who), and they said that these jet systems cause turbulence in the air and create more micro-dust than they eliminate. But if they were in-line then I don't see how this could be. Maybe I didn't put 'in-line' in my post. But I think I'm going to go down this route in some respect, the exhaust of the cyclone also filtered with a further Jet system.

Cheers for all the input_Dan

The "they" refered to above is me and that is not what I wrote
What I wrote can be found here
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/air-filtration-system-question-t46916.html
and what i wrote was

There is a body of opinion out there which suggests that the in-shop turbulence caused by these units cause more 'micro-dust' to be suspended in the air than it cleans out. I concur with this opinion.

Other than the bad grammar therein, I still stand by the above.

 

[matt]

I'm inclined to agree, especially as the dust filters do not remove the <0.5 (0.3 in the case of the Microclenes I think) micron dust. So, the visible stuff and some of the invisible stuff gets trapped in the filter material. The remainder passes through the filter and is blown out the exhaust and back in to the air.

Bottom line... Suck in as much dust as possible at source. What you can't dump in the extractor bag or filter out, exhaust away from the space where you're working. Do, however, give reasonable consideration to where your outlet blows. Mine is directed down in to a damp space between my garage and a wall. I figure what doesn't get laden with moisture dissipates quickly to levels that will not be any form of health hazard.

I also wear a face mask but once again, the filter performance is of debatable value.

Limiting exposure to the really harmful dust - the type you cannot see seems to be the best you can expect to achieve.

 

[goldeneyedmonkey]

At the money your spending you could nearly buy a clean air system that would be more than enough for what your wanting without the heat loss.

...clean air system, can you elaborate please?

Paul; I did post about putting one of these Jet Air Filtration Systems in-line with the exhaust of the outlet, and this is where the idea of exhausting outside came from, it was a suggestion that someone came up with (sorry can't remember who), and they said that these jet systems cause turbulence in the air and create more micro-dust than they eliminate. But if they were in-line then I don't see how this could be. Maybe I didn't put 'in-line' in my post. But I think I'm going to go down this route in some respect, the exhaust of the cyclone also filtered with a further Jet system.

Cheers for all the input_Dan

The "they" refered to above is me and that is not what I wrote
What I wrote can be found here
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/air-filtration-system-question-t46916.html
and what i wrote was

There is a body of opinion out there which suggests that the in-shop turbulence caused by these units cause more 'micro-dust' to be suspended in the air than it cleans out. I concur with this opinion.

Other than the bad grammar therein, I still stand by the above.

...didn't mean to misquote you sorry. I suppose I understand your point about disturbing the air/ turbulence/ kicking up dust. But they must surely be beneficial if they are installed in a certain way. They say they filter 85% of particles that are 1 micron in size (not the really nasty stuff that's >1 micron I know), but these are still not good for you, so as long as they are in-line/ working in the same direction as the exhaust outlet of your extractor I reckon that they would do more good than harm. Just IMHO, but obviously I'm no expert.

I reckon aiming your exhaust obviously downwards and into a damp area, if there is one is a good idea. Maybe there is a low-tech substance/ material that is good at catching some of the particles that the filters miss? I'll do a bit of research.

Cheers all_Dan