If my dad wasnt dead I'd kill him

[Terry - Somerset]

House prices have seriously outstripped general inflation - but housing is not the only measure of standard or cost of living. Most other things have either gone down in real terms, or didn't exist in decades gone by.

We could also debate endlessly whether those things we can now afford, or do now exist, are of real value - many are not in my opinion.

The real issue with housing is quite simply a lack of supply to meet the demands of a growing population. It is more profound a problem in places where people want to live - although those who regard London (or any large city) as a desirable place live are very welcome to it!

 

[Rorschach]

The real issue with housing is quite simply a lack of supply to meet the demands of a growing population.

You are quite right, but it is a totally unnecessary problem that is created entirely on purpose.

There is more than enough land available to build plenty of houses to meet demand, but if we did so house prices would only rise with inflation and that wouldn't be good for the economy.

 

[RogerS]

.. it kept their parents ....poor.

.....

How so ?

People of that generation, in my case it is my grandparents or maybe just my parents generation benefited enough that they could afford to buy their own house and live a comfortable but frugal life. Their pensions allowed them a frugal, short retirement and the wealth accumulated in their property. They cannot afford to move since selling the property would only get enough money to buy something similar at best, they could not afford to renovate or improve that property very much. They contribute to the state and take out very little. When they die though that property passes to their children, already having independent wealth making them rich, they studied for free, their pensions are good, too good and they live a long retirement with many benefits from the state including tv licence, fuel allowance, bus passes, triple lock state pension as well as final salary pensions. They contribute to the state but take out much more than they paid in. Their children cannot afford to get onto the property ladder, have low wages, student loans, high taxation. If they are lucky they might be able to get onto the property ladder before they are 40. Their best chance at a comfortable home is their parents dying young but more likely their parents will get dementia and the wealth accumulated in their home will be taken by the state when they die. Their pensions are poor, their retirement will be short, a state pension probably non-existent.

Such a sweeping generalisation, I'll not bother to reply.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

The real issue with housing is quite simply a lack of supply to meet the demands of a growing population.

You are quite right, but it is a totally unnecessary problem that is created entirely on purpose.

There is more than enough land available to build plenty of houses to meet demand, but if we did so house prices would only rise with inflation and that wouldn't be good for the economy.

Limit housing to inflate prices, and encourage immigration to depress wages, and also to put pressure on housing, thereby keeping the market fully inflated. Does expensive housing and low wages help the general population? Does the economy leap forward with all the extra drag this entails?

 

[lurker]

My house is worth a little over ten times what I paid for it.
Then I was on a bit better than the average salary, average salary is now ten times what it was then.. So no change in fourty years.


Of course I don't live Dan sarf but up north where we all live in mud huts and live on benefits.

 

[sunnybob]

So much anger :shock:
So much absolutely pointless aggression. :shock:
So many trolls :roll:

I reckon the government are putting something in the water as well as flouride.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
get a grip people, its a WOODWORKING forum, with occasional light entertainment.

 

[lurker]

You started it

 

[Trainee neophyte]

My house is worth a little over ten times what I paid for it.
Then I was on a bit better than the average salary, average salary is now ten times what it was then.. So no change in fourty years.


Of course I don't live Dan sarf but up north where we all live in mud huts and live on benefits.

Don't you live in a shoe box on (implied letter T) middle of motorway?[youtube]VKHFZBUTA4k[/youtube]

 

[Rorschach]

Such a sweeping generalisation, I'll not bother to reply.

Sounds like a boomer reply :roll: :lol:

You did ask though, I can't help that you don't like the answer.

 

[sunnybob]

You started it

True, but did anyone actually think i was angry enough i would dig him up and kill him? :roll:
(tricky mind, he was cremated 41 years ago)

Why did it become a political rant?
I now know that Jacob is not alone

 

[Trainee neophyte]

Blame me. My fault.

I won't do it again, i promise. Well, I'll try, anyway.

 

[Lons]

Why did it become a political rant?

Couldn't possibly have become anything else Bob, what did you expect? Never mind it will very soon be the next locked or deleted thread which it should be!

Let's be clear on this, as far as I understand the discussion of politics is not allowed on the forum, Brexit was "allegedly" a special case and look what happened to that and the mess it got in to.

The forum has since then been reasonably civil and back on subject long may that continue.

 

[Jacob]

Why did it become a political rant?

I wouldn't say it was a rant - just a discussion!
But you brought up a highly sensitive political topic - it wasn't just natural processes beyond our control that you were commenting on in your first post.
Anyway we are supposed to be grown ups and quite capable of talking about issues of the day, are we not?

 

[lurker]

Bit unreasonable Lons,
Started off as a jokey observation.

Us old gits must regularly think " if only I had known that when I was twenty" about lots of things.

 

[Lons]

Bit unreasonable Lons,
Started off as a jokey observation.

Us old gits must regularly think " if only I had known that when I was twenty" about lots of things.

I wasn't trying to have a dig at Bob, I can identify with what he said and know it was a joke but I'm sure I'm not the only one when I read the post before any replies who would have thought " light blue touch paper and retire".

Happens every time does it not. #-o

I don't only wish I'd known when I was twenty but wish I could still do what came easily when I was twenty.

 

[Jacob]

So-called political topics always seem to upset the same small group. I don't exactly know why but I have a good idea!
TN probably right when he said:
You now pay 300 times more for a London house in real terms, than in 1952. In real terms. 
why should we be prohibited from talking about this? Is it supposed to be a secret?

 

[Lons]

So-called political topics always seem to upset the same small group. I don't exactly know why but I have a good idea!

We didn't set the rules!

(6a.) Politics.
Over the years there has been one subject that has caused heated debates on the forums and that is politics. For that reason political discussion, in particular party political comments in a thread are not regarded as acceptable, please remember this is a woodworking forum after all. We do however understand that politics effects everyday life which is why some topics may be allowed depending on the circumstances.

If you want to talk politics then go do so on one of the political forums you frequent. It wouldn't be such an issue if you didn't hop on to your soapbox at every opportunity.

 

[Trevanion]

It's an interesting topic, especially for me because I'm sort-of trying to get on the property ladder fairly early on. I always used to think, "Ahh, If all these people that had 20 rented homes under their belt could be restricted to perhaps two then property prices would be reasonable again!", but I did a bit of reading and back in the 1920's nine in ten homes were private rent compared to one in ten now, which I think made my point kind of redundant. What I think doesn't help is there are a lot of dodgy things and back-handers going on in big construction especially in the "affordable homes" sector, there was a fairly recent local housing development put through planning under the pretense that they were all going to be "affordable homes" for strictly people from the local area, now it's two out of thirty that can be classed as an "affordable home", and the rest are well above what the average young person could afford and anyone from anywhere can buy them, not just the locals.

I don't want to demonise people with second-homes or that are moving down from more wealthy areas for stealing all the homes either because a large chunk of my work comes from these people wanting to renovate old barns and buildings that most around here couldn't afford to do and you could never get a mortgage on them so they would simply fall into disrepair regardless. If it wasn't for these people I definitely wouldn't be as far along as I am now.

"if only I had known that when I was twenty".

Please share

 

[Jacob]

.........
I don't want to demonise people with second-homes or that are moving down from more wealthy areas for stealing all the homes ......

If you want to demonise anybody it has to be Thatcher - she set off the whole thing by selling off council houses. If they had been sold at a fair price and the money reinvested in the state housing sector things could have been a lot better.
Not the only factor of course, but a big one:
It was already happening before 1979 - I bought my first house for £3000 in 1974, which had been bought only a few years earlier for £500.

 

[Trevanion]

If you want to demonise anybody it has to be Thatcher - she set off the whole thing by selling off council houses..

To be fair, that's probably the only reason my grandfather was able to buy his house and pass it onto the family, otherwise we'd still be in the mud. So I've got nothing against Thatcher really.