I hoped this day would never come - loosing my workshop.

[rafezetter]

I've often wondered why a person whom owns a commercial space is willing to let it stand with ZERO rental income often for years instead of lowering the rent to a point someone will take it - it baffles me.

I made this point years ago and someone said it was to do with the proprty value or something, but surely the property value of a commercial place is what it will bring in rental income, and if I was buying one, the first thing I would ask is "how much rental income has this made in the last 10 years" - and if it's been empty half the time it's only worth HALF the value.

Giantbeat - maybe you need to start pushing the agents and asking them when it was last actually rented, or get even pushier and remind them that an empty property doesn't earn the agent ANY monthly fees at all.

 

[RobinBHM]

I agree whole heartedly, if you have a passion for something and you do it for a living great, but rents are set at market value, if the business can't match them then something is wrong with the business not the rents.

"something is wrong with the business not the rents"

people who follow Marxism would disagree (I cant think of anybody on this forum, that does...oh wait a minute )

 

[clogs]

Had an engineering unit, with 5 men…in the NW…
the agent skimmed off the top and rents went up oh so regular….
After I quit, said unit was rented for a while but the owner demolished the lot about 10 units as they “ were not profitable”
n built low cost housing….
beware of agents….most of the time they are not proactive for their clients….sometimes u have to push…
dumb I know but have u placed a wanted add……?
good luck

 

[RobinBHM]

this thread has taken unexpected and yet fascinating turn/off tangents…. Interesting reading.

I appreciate many of you suggesting shared space, etc… that’s not suitable, I can’t take bespoke tooling to such a place… this is a stand alone established 3 man business with a lot of manufacturing equipment.

several have taken my post about cost been driven up due to lack of available space as “I can’t afford” .. I never said that, nor did I imply it, we have a budget, it has a max point of course & no one with any sense in business willingly pays over the odds.
our max is more than the average £ per sqFt for the area, the problem is lack of availability Or lack of willingness to rent to specific trades, I get shoehorned into joinery and carpentry as its Wood work, I’m far more specific… if anything I’d say I was more plywood manufacturing & finishing… but hey ho

something will come up, or it won’t.

have you tried looking on facebook marketplace, indeed posting the question on a local facebook group.

have you been though every rural industrial estate -including those on farms etc -its always worth talking to the landlord because they may have a tenant thats given notice.

My guess is the cost of moving will be substantial -not so much the cost of the haulage but the cost of fitting out the new factory: 3 phase electrics and dust extraction installations costs serious money.

I really hope something turns up for you

 

[baldkev]

most people with one man band woodworking shops would earn more money doing site carpentry

Yes, especially when you factor in rent and business rates etc. Around here a single unit costs 800 plus vat per month, so you need to earn a fair bit each month and a one man band would have to build that into their prices, which pro rata would be higher per job than a joinery shop with 4 joiners.

but some have described them as "great little businesses", this they are not if turnover is tiny, and every day is a struggle and rents are a killer. More of a "lovely enjoyable business, with poor profit".

Unfortunately, yep. You need to be well established and have plenty of work to be able to charge high enough prices to cover everything. Apparently if you raise your prices 20%, you loose roughly 20% of your customers, but do less work for the same money.... which is good when you are very busy. Most one man bands are not trying to make lots of profit, otherwise they would employ people, take on more work, take more risk in exchange for the higher return.
I think it would be fair to say most one man outfits probably don't want the stress of going big and accept the limitations. I stick to loft conversions, house refurbs, kitchen fits etc ( on my own ) and wouldnt employ others. Ive turned down a few larger jobs because i dont want it and accept that i wont get rich. Its better than employed wages, but a lot more work. Probably not a massivecamount in it when you consider holiday pay, sick pay, pension options, tools and maintenance etc

 

[Doug71]

For reasons I won't go in to the family joinery business went tits up and I started up by myself in an old brick barn on a friends farm. It was idyllic, I could open up the big pair of barn doors and there was a duck pond right outside, amazing views over the Yorkshire Wolds and the rent was £100 a month. Because I was starting again from nothing I didn't have any kit so it was a quick trip to Axminster for a few of their trade machines and a few cheap bits off ebay. Downside was it was about 20 mins drive, a bit small, very basic and I knew the friends were only really doing it as a favour to help me out. A year later a bigger more modern unit came up about 1 1/2 miles from where I live so it made sense to take it even though the rent was a lot more. I have been in this unit for 5 years now and the rent has gone up 50% plus I have gradually invested in better machinery so I'm back to proper industrial stuff. I don't make any more now than I did when I was in the barn and life seemed much simpler then, plus I miss the ducks

Don't know how this helps the OP but I've had a couple of glasses of wine and just felt the need to share

 

[chris13]

I am sorry to read that it is difficult to relocate your business in Wakefield. Is the availability of industrial premises in neighbouring towns such as Ossett, Dewsbury, Batley or Morley any better ? I think I might be tempted to describe your business in terms of production of musical instruments !

 

[RobinBHM]

For reasons I won't go in to the family joinery business went **** up and I started up by myself in an old brick barn on a friends farm. It was idyllic, I could open up the big pair of barn doors and there was a duck pond right outside, amazing views over the Yorkshire Wolds and the rent was £100 a month. Because I was starting again from nothing I didn't have any kit so it was a quick trip to Axminster for a few of their trade machines and a few cheap bits off ebay. Downside was it was about 20 mins drive, a bit small, very basic and I knew the friends were only really doing it as a favour to help me out. A year later a bigger more modern unit came up about 1 1/2 miles from where I live so it made sense to take it even though the rent was a lot more. I have been in this unit for 5 years now and the rent has gone up 50% plus I have gradually invested in better machinery so I'm back to proper industrial stuff. I don't make any more now than I did when I was in the barn and life seemed much simpler then, plus I miss the ducks

Don't know how this helps the OP but I've had a couple of glasses of wine and just felt the need to share

Well funnily enough I shut my joinery shop 3 years ago -I had a unit of about 4000 sq ft, with re-saw, 4 sider, wide belt sander, etc etc Now Ive got a small unit on a farm that is about 1000 sq feet -its got window that look out onto a field with horses. Downside is its a pig farm and the smell can be quite ripe

Im going to start subbing out the carcase components, edge banding and CNC drilling and I will just make the face frames and doors -I might even buy in the doors.

 

[minotauruk]

This may not be of use but I live near Wakefield, heard of a business unit that may become available soon....I was thinking of using this for myself as I am slowly setting up my own business, but in no position to rent a unit at the moment. The company details are below, you could call them and find out if there is anything available:

Road Runner
Address: Grove Works, 16B Healey Rd, Ossett WF5 8LN
Phone: 01924 280920

 

[OrangeFive]

For reasons I won't go in to the family joinery business went **** up and I started up by myself in an old brick barn on a friends farm. It was idyllic, I could open up the big pair of barn doors and there was a duck pond right outside, amazing views over the Yorkshire Wolds and the rent was £100 a month. Because I was starting again from nothing I didn't have any kit so it was a quick trip to Axminster for a few of their trade machines and a few cheap bits off ebay. Downside was it was about 20 mins drive, a bit small, very basic and I knew the friends were only really doing it as a favour to help me out. A year later a bigger more modern unit came up about 1 1/2 miles from where I live so it made sense to take it even though the rent was a lot more. I have been in this unit for 5 years now and the rent has gone up 50% plus I have gradually invested in better machinery so I'm back to proper industrial stuff. I don't make any more now than I did when I was in the barn and life seemed much simpler then, plus I miss the ducks

Don't know how this helps the OP but I've had a couple of glasses of wine and just felt the need to share

This is one of the best posts ever. It’s so true

 

[chrispy108]

Have you spoken to anyone at Tileyard North Coming Soon - Tileyard

 

[giantbeat]

Have you spoken to anyone at Tileyard North Coming Soon - Tileyard

i have been to every public meeting & met with the tiltyard people many times, due to the end product & the acts i work with i know the north & south operations, what they are, what they will be & why they won't be suitable for me, they certainly don't want industrial manufacturing on their fancy swanky site... they don't really want any local operations, its more about the industry migrating north, but you won't get anyone from TY to admit that

 

[giantbeat]

Bit of an update

i have made my landlord a counter offer, he's packing up his operation so instead of him selling to a developer who will rip the building down, i have proposed to expand and take his old space as well as mine, more than double what i have + a swanky office last used for a recruitment company.
we will rip down the current partition walls, put up new ones & do a complete refit.

will mean we triple the current show room space, and double my workshop + storage & offices.

to my surprise he's accepted & we are negotiating the lease & fine details.

 

[akirk]

awesome news, really hope that works out

 

[giantbeat]

awesome news, really hope that works out

Thanks, big risk, bit squeaky bum time but i can do so much more with the space, just need to tweak the business model.

plus it means i can do a workshop refit thread on here.

he's not going till December so I celebration I just bought drum sander I can't fit in my current space & a new veneer press 4 times the capacity of my old, I'm going to leave it in his with a sign that says "have you gone yet" on it.

 

[Rich C]

i have been to every public meeting & met with the tiltyard people many times, due to the end product & the acts i work with i know the north & south operations, what they are, what they will be & why they won't be suitable for me, they certainly don't want industrial manufacturing on their fancy swanky site... they don't really want any local operations, its more about the industry migrating north, but you won't get anyone from TY to admit that

They look more like office space than light manufacturing to me, definitely won't want someone blowing chemical smells over their nice macbook toting clients.

 

[giantbeat]

They look more like office space than light manufacturing to me, definitely won't want someone blowing chemical smells over their nice macbook toting clients.

nail on head

 

[SadGeek]

Its happened to me twice. First time i had a 1500 sqft unit on a farm, Well it started as a cowshed on the side of a barn, but it was cheap, served me well for 15 years then the council caught up with us & announced we would be charged business rates. At that point in time we had just had a child & as my wife earnt more than me we decided to swop roles & i did the househusband thing. Business was suffering anyway so i pulled the plug on the place and sold or scrapped everything.
3 years later the rates bills came in backdated to a month after i handed the keys back, so a result really.
Second time 12 years later i rented a remote & derelict scout hut from the council for a one off prototype job. I took it on with a one year licence with option to go for a lease at end of that year. The job went well, i got my mojo back & worked really hard, Specialised part of my previous trade & started to go really well, We started negotiating for the ten year lease and the rent they offered was fair. At last minute a council solicitor decided to up the rent demand to 5x higher & they wouldnt budge. I pulled the plug & had a big bonfire as the district valuer was measuring up for business rates!
I searched & searched for a new place but there was literally nothing affordable, rents down here were / are astronomical & it simply wasnt viable to continue. So a good little business with several spin off opportunities for others got killed off. Note in both instances i never went bust & never owed anyone a penny. I suppose thats something to be proud off at least!
I now work from home. Its smaller & you have to be careful about noise but theres nobody taking all the money of you before you get it.

Everything I have ever heard about CastlePoint Council leaves me thinking they are all totally corrupt.

 

[Keith 66]

Yes thats the bunch!

 

[Woodmatt]

This may be of no help but could you buy your new premises.Clearly you have a successful business if you have been around for 17 years.Does any with the risk of being asked to move again and it is likely to be a great investment,treat it as your pension fund.I was in the same situation 30 years ago and it was the best decision I ever made