I can't believe this is happening...

[big soft moose]

it's a big family who stick together, they aren't settled gypsies, they have chosen the lifestyle and they have been referred to a plastic pikeys and wannabes. They have a reputation for being idiots and nasty bastards.

Really you only have three choices here

a) you can go down the legal/court/insurance route - your insurance company will fix the vehicle then seek their money back from the third party. going this way would imply that you believe or are willing to risk that his threats are just a bluff

b) you can go the "persuasion" route - its tempting to do this particularly if you have heavy freinds but if these people , pikeys or not, have a reputation as nasty bastards then things could very quickly escalate out of control , and its not just you on the firing line but your wife and kids - plus even if you did come out on top after some serious violence , the police now know that you have an issue with this guy and going for team handed persausion puts you outside the law.

c) you can just cut your losses and walk away - i know that this leaves a nasty taste but for the normal guy in the street its often the most sensible option and sad to say that is what i would suggest you do here.

taking on a bunch of nasty bastards for a less than £200 debt doesnt make any kind of sense.

 

[RogerS]

Good points but still reckon they haven't got any insurance so the police should get on the case.

 

[Jenx]

Two Christmases ago... My motor was broken into, Passenger side window smashed, and stero stolen + cd's.
Phoned them... not interested.

Motorcycle Stolen, Aug 07... phoned them when discovered it at 8am.
Statement over the phone taken.. never heard another thing.
Nobody came, nothing. I got given a crime number ( for the insurance ), and absolutely nothing else happened.

Not got much faith in them doing very much to ever help me with anything.

I think that was the 'realisation' that there is no 'big brother safety net' who'll jump to your assistance, when I believed there would be.
I'm not sure what the police are actually 'for' to be honest ...
.... ok they'll attend at RTA's, Wait (hide) to catch you speeding (which is the bit that winds everybody up.. but they'll be doing as they're told by 'someone', I guess .. :? ), but if something that in 99% of people's eyes is 'unlawfully done to you' ... forget it -- nobody's interested.

Imagine having a bit of a crunch in your car ( notwithstanding whats happened to Simon here, ), but just with another ordinary bod, who .. at the scene, admits liability verbally ... then when you try to sort it all out over the coming days, they change their tune.
Your up a certain waterway, without a certain rowing impliment.
It'll invariably end up going 'knock for knock', and you.. as a completely innocent party, are out of pocket yet again.
Its time that this "system" was looked at.
Its frought with banan skins, and it shouldnt be.
Especially when you pay, what.. typically several hundreds for your insurance.. and the 'penalty' ( assuming anyone is ever brought to book for it.. ) for driving without it usually ends up at ONE hundred quid.
Who's the mugs here ?

Thats why our premiums are so high.

They have to have an 'uninsured driving accidents' fund with which to pay out with.
So the "law abiding innocent" pays, yet again.

Nobody in their right mind would believe this idiotic system doesnt require a massive overhaul.


And just to add a 2p worth...
I can accept that Abbos in australia are a persecuted and oppressed society and that is unacceptble.
Thieving hedgehog eating, knife sharpening, washing stealing manky scumbag diddakoi pikey ***kpigs choose to live that way, and aren't 'oppressed or persecuted by anyone.
There IS NO analogy there.

 

[RogerS]

.......
And just to add a 2p worth...
I can accept that Abbos in australia are a persecuted and oppressed society and that is unacceptble.
Thieving hedgehog eating, knife sharpening, washing stealing manky scumbag diddakoi pikey ***kpigs choose to live that way, and aren't 'oppressed or persecuted by anyone.
There IS NO analogy there.

You forgot child-stealing. :wink:

 

[Jenx]

And terrier-fighting.
:wink:

 

[big soft moose]

Thieving hedgehog eating, knife sharpening, washing stealing manky scumbag diddakoi pikey ***kpigs choose to live that way, and aren't 'oppressed or persecuted by anyone.
There IS NO analogy there.

I agree jenx with two provisos

a) the propper "romany" gypsies were oppresed and persecuted as a race by both hitler and stalin , and today they still get a lot of (underserved) flak from the dominant ethnicities in albania, hungary etc

and b) the propper "pikies" are southern irish and again did see a fair bit of oppresion / persecution by the ruling british overclass in southern ireland in the late 18/ early 1900s (potatoe famine, wind that shakes the barley etc)

which is why a number of both a) and b) can be found travelling in britain and europe having fled their homelands to escape persecution.

however not every romany or irish pikey fits into the " Thieving hedgehog eating, knife sharpening, washing stealing, scrap metal dealing, terrier fighting, badger baiting, dole scrounging, manky scumbag diddakoi pikey ***kpig" bracket

which goes to show that those that do have chosen to do so of their own freewill and not as a result of the ills of society

 

[matt]

Imagine having a bit of a crunch in your car ( notwithstanding whats happened to Simon here, ), but just with another ordinary bod, who .. at the scene, admits liability verbally ... then when you try to sort it all out over the coming days, they change their tune.
Your up a certain waterway, without a certain rowing impliment.
It'll invariably end up going 'knock for knock', and you.. as a completely innocent party, are out of pocket yet again.

I think most people admit liability but then realise it's not for them to decide - it's for the insurance companies to decide liability. Clearly it makes sense (to avoid a tricky situation) to hold your hands up at the scene if it's plainly your fault but most insurances contain a clause to say your insurance can be void if you admit liability.

 

[MikeG.]

Thieving hedgehog eating, knife sharpening, washing stealing manky scumbag diddakoi pikey ***kpigs

I really would find it difficult to ever take anything you say seriously after reading this peurile stereotyping.

Mike

 

[Rich]

Now com'n chaps calm down, the reason I gave the forum a wide berth for a while was because I was vilified for holding strong views, and more importantly, airing them, it doesn't mean I was wrong/right, but each and everyone of us has an opinion of one sort or another and should be allowed to express it without fear of reprisal.
we all can't agree on everything, but some of us are pretty close to the breadline and to see others get away scot free with a crime whilst some of us HAVE to stump up for lesser offences because we are registered and residing in a known location makes a mockery of justice, I recently had to pay a speeding fine for doing 33mph in a 30mph zone, caught on camera and they know where I live, had it been a traveller for instance, the offence would have been forgotten, THIS is the sort of thing that breeds ill feeling and one can understand why especially as one also has to pay council tax etc etc.
I have no ill feeling towards travellers but I have no sympathy for them when they bring about hatred and abhorrence to themselves.

Rich.

 

[Jenx]

Nobody takes me too seriously,
not even me :wink:

 

[Jenx]

Imagine having a bit of a crunch in your car ( notwithstanding whats happened to Simon here, ), but just with another ordinary bod, who .. at the scene, admits liability verbally ... then when you try to sort it all out over the coming days, they change their tune.
Your up a certain waterway, without a certain rowing impliment.
It'll invariably end up going 'knock for knock', and you.. as a completely innocent party, are out of pocket yet again.

I think most people admit liability but then realise it's not for them to decide - it's for the insurance companies to decide liability. Clearly it makes sense (to avoid a tricky situation) to hold your hands up at the scene if it's plainly your fault but most insurances contain a clause to say your insurance can be void if you admit liability.

Thats kind of what I'm getting at there, Matt.
.. kind of..
Times was, in the dim and distant past.. you phoned the 'bobby'
( I'm meaning a non-injury type bump here, you understand.. just bent metal )..
But 'today', you can phone them if you wish... nobody will come though.
.. unless you're vehicles are blocking the road of course.

The insurance company wont decide who's at fault.. they couldn't.
They weren't there.

Thats the point I'm making ...
Assuming you're a 'clearly innocent party' .. ( lets say someone pulls out of a side road and you clip him.. for example ).. thats his fault.. but if he contests it, in the absence of the rozzers... how can you hope to be 'fully covered' ? you cant.
You should, in theory.. not be out of pocket in the slightest.
But I'd bet my bottom dollar, you will be. And thats wrong.

This would indicate the importance of trying to obtain witnesses at the scene... not always possible of course.

Whilst on the hobbyhorse... Protected No Claims Discounts. --
Con.
Lets assume you have a 60% NCD.
And its 'protected'. ( which loads your premium a little to obtain this 'protection )
And your policy cost you £500 which is then given a 60% discount.
-- therefore you paid a nett £200 for the cover.
- The you have a bump.. on which there is an insurance claim.
- next renewal date.. you think, I'm ok, I have a protected NCD.
-- The quoted price is now £1000, "cause you made a claim, Sir"... but you will get 60% NCD, as your discount is protected.
.. Nett result is your insurance now costs you £400.
- Sure, you get a 60% discount still.. but off what ? .. the undiscounted price is totally variable, and you have not bought any protection against that. - obvious it may seem, but its surprising how many people get caught out.

The whole concept of Motor Insurance and the manner by which it operates is fundamentally flawed.
To my mind.. every vehicle should pay a set insurance charge and then display a coloured disc or something similar ( much like the road tax system ) in the window of the car.
Absence of one, in the event of an accident, should be an undisputable callout of the police to the scene ( and don't believe the 'we havent got time' excuse, thats a nonsense.. ) and if its found that there is no coloured disc ( i.e. no insurance ), that should result in an undisputable, and mandatory £5 Grand fine / or 6 months at her majestys pleasure.
End of. no if's or buts about it... Leave the scene of the accident, and that results in a punishment fit for the severity of doing so.
And you then claim on YOUR Insurance.. currently, your company claims on the other partys insurance. ( Claim/ Counter-claim ending up as 'easiest way is knock for knock' agreement between the non-cartel'd and totally above board world of insurance companies.. believe that if you like )

Its time that this vague, wooly nonsense was put to bed permanently.
Its not hard to bring about a very workable, clearly defined and cut & dried system into being. And to give it the proper levity and gravitas that it should have.
This would effectively put a stop to the situations that Simon has had to endure.

No Insurance on that vehicle ... ?
Wallop. Huge fine ( not negotiable ) .. or 6 months in the clink.
And everone pays a set fee for a vehicle, which could be banded into M/C's, Car, HGV , etc etc... and set at sensible levels.
Nobody loses... Insurance companies, Joe Public, yada yada...
only loser is the crook that used to fail to ensure his vehicle, and that.. ladies and mantelpieces, is EXACTLY HOW IT SHOULD BE. :evil:



.. but don't take me seriously.

 

[BMac]

In the Rep. of Ireland drivers are required to display valid tax and insurance on the windscreen - they even have dual-pocket display pouches to accommodate the two documents.

I think it is a great idea.

 

[Rich]

In the Rep. of Ireland drivers are required to display valid tax and insurance on the windscreen - they even have dual-pocket display pouches to accommodate the two documents.

I think it is a great idea.

Yes but here, you cannot buy a road tax disc unless you have insurance and an MOT.

Rich.

 

[Jenx]

So 'fine-tune' the system to accommodate it, Rich , no ?

In fact .. I'm thinking.. that works already and would continue to do so, would it not ?

 

[BMac]

That's very true Rich but the reason for having to display valid insurance in ROI is to stop people using a 30-day insurance cover note to get tax and then not bothering to continue with the policy.

It's like everything, someone will work out a way to get around the legal niceties and then more requirements need to be introduced.

 

[Jenx]

Yep ...

Like 'do away with a 30 day covernote'.

The owner of the vehicle insures it.
Year on year.
Sell the vehicle, the policy is recinded and a proportional sum creditied to your account with the insurance company , set against your new vehicle, or returned to you if you are giving up owning a vehicle all together.
All companies to charge the same fee... so you have no reason to change your 'supplier'

I'm sure that a car policy ( pro-rata for other vehicle classifications ) working as I described, would need to be charged at somewhere around the £200 quid mark ( ish ).
Every vehicle in the land made to comply... I'm certain that the insurance companies incoming revenue will be much higher than under the current system, where its documented ( and at this hour I cant be bothered to go look for it.. but its there somewhere.. ) that something like 1 in 3 cars in the UK is on the road currently without any insurance.

Sure, it'll take a bit of fine-tuning to make it a definitvely workable system,
but it would not be beyond the wit of man to get that implemented, up and running within a shortish timescale.

Far better than the farce which exists currently. :wink:

(Edit ) : In fact.. thinking this thru further... tie it into "Road Fund Licence" in some manner ( Road Tax ).
The DVLA have a pretty efficient computer that manages to know of every vehicle's existence in the UK, and in doing so.. manages to generate a reminder to tax ( or indeed SORN ) that vehicle.
Tie this insurance idea into that... If its got a reg number, its 'known to exist' ... and tie this whole scenario up tighter than a christmas turkey.
What an amout of hassle and problems it cures in one fell swoop.


( Wait till you hear the idea I have regarding " ID Cards" and the 'alternative' to that. :wink: :lol: ... It'll sort out a massive UK problem in one easy method. - for another day though :wink: )

 

[superunknown]

Hi
I don't really have any advice thats not been said, but I was sorry to read your troubles and amazed after looking at your website that we work within a few minutes walk of each other and I didn't even realise you were there.

There seems to be a lot of the wrong type of person in this area and your problem is a worry I wish you all the best and hope its sorted safely.

 

[devonwoody]

Sorry to learn of your loss, pity one of my Kentish daughters has retired from the local cops, I would have got you some personal service, your scumbags would be applying for asylum somewhere by now.

 

[promhandicam]

Sorry to learn of your loss, pity one of my Kentish daughters has retired from the local cops, I would have got you some personal service, your scumbags would be applying for asylum somewhere by now.

Of all the twaddle that has been spouted in this thread this perhaps takes the prize :shock:

 

[matt]

Jenx, you seem to have had a particularly bad experience of insurance. My car has been hit a couple of times in recent years and I've never accepted the knock for knock. Even though I've not had witnesses I've managed to argue my case through the insurance company/legal representation and not lost a penny. Also... I've not lost out to protected NCD. Use the online calc's to calculate a premium without a claim and one with and the premium has been the same.