I can buy a Wadkin DR 36" bandsaw - what to look out fo

[jurriaan]

I have an opportunity to buy a big (stupendously enormous) Wadkin DR Bandsaw, 36" wheels.

What parts in particular should I look at in detail? Rubber on the wheels, guides, bearings - what can go wrong with a saw like that?

I haven't seen the saw in question yet, but the owner quotes a 380V, 16,6A engine running it. That would make it a 16 KW or 21 HP engine, which surely is over the top. Can anyone tell me what a standard engine for this saw used to be? I think/hope he's reading the engine details wrong!

Thanks!

Jurriaan

 

[Scrit]

Hi Jurriaan and welcome

The 36in DR came with a 5HP (3.7kW) motor which would draw 16 Amps at start up (but only about 9 Amps under normal running) on British 415 volts 3-phase (17 Amps and 10 Amps respectively on European mainland 380 volts), so I think your calculations may be a bit out.

The main things I'd be concerned about are how you're going to move and accommodate the beast. The 36in DR stands about 9ft high and weighs in at 21cwt (1070kg - Wadkin's own quoted figure) so a Hiab lorry and appropriate road access/clearances at your end (i.e. a minimum 10-1/2ft high door) are in order to shift this. Don't underestimate this - if you have a sloping tarmac drive with overhanging trees and telephone wires you simply won't get this machine in without damaging the drive and/or the vegetation/wires. And that's always assuming the driver is even willing to entertain doing the drop. Once it's in you'll need skates and a toe jack to get it into position and it will need a 6in thick re-inforced concrete floor beneath it.

Things to look for? State of the tyres for one, state of the thrust bearings behind the blades (which will probably need binning and replacing) and the of side bearings. These would originally have been of hardwood, although many users did replace them with the Chaco style of bearing which use Bakelite thrusts. Make sure that the tensioning device is working smoothly and that the spring still compresses and isn't broken and in particular check that the trunnion (beneath the table) isn't cracked or broken/rewelded - that's one thing which can't be fixed. Finally check that the wheels spin smoothly without any ticking (which indicates potential bearing problems). This saw will in all probability not have a rip fence as these saws were intended for sawing shapes and were not designed as resaws, so if you intend to use it for ripping you'll need to take that into account as well.

The DRs were last manufactured in the 1960s, having been replaced in the late 1950s by the Wadkin Bursgreen BZB bandsaws, so you are buying a machine made somewhere between the late 1920s and 1960 in all probability. That means forget about getting parts - they are simply not available any longer.

Above: Earlier (pre-WWII) DR with round-top upper guard. Later machines had a squared-off upper guard

Scrit

 

[jurriaan]

Hi Jurriaan and welcome

The main things I'd be concerned about are how you're going to move and accommodate the beast. The 36in DR stands about 9ft high and weighs in at 21cwt (1070kg - Wadkin's own quoted figure) so a Hiab lorry and appropriate road access/clearances at your end (i.e. a minimum 10-1/2ft high door) are in order to shift this. Don't underestimate this - if you have a sloping tarmac drive with overhanging trees and telephone wires you simply won't get this machine in without damaging the drive and/or the vegetation/wires. And that's always assuming the driver is even willing to entertain doing the drop. Once it's in you'll need skates and a toe jack to get it into position and it will need a 6in thick re-inforced concrete floor beneath it.

I happen to have a shed which has a free height of some 4 meters, including a chain pully rated at 1500 kilos, a 4 meters high door and a concrete floor. The price is including delivery, so I think I'm good there.

Thanks for the tips, I'm off to look at this beast wednesday evening.

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi jurriaan

Welcome to the forum.

It might help members answer your questions if you fill in the country field in your profile. :wink:

Cheers
Neil

 

[Scrit]

I happen to have a shed which has a free height of some 4 meters, including a chain pully rated at 1500 kilos, a 4 meters high door and a concrete floor.

Forgive the skepticism, but I know of a number of cases where people have bought "bargains" only to find they have problems....... An acquaintance of mine some years ago had a chain and chisel morticer sat half way up his drive under a tarpaulin for at least five years until he scrapped it. It had been a bargain, but the delivery lorry couldn't get up the drive (gates too narrow), couldn't get the beast into his 2-car garage (too far from road and trees/telephone wire in way of Hiab crane) and over the course of a hot summer its' one tonne mass sank into the tarmac by several inches and then set solid making it immoveable. At which point he realised he couldn't convert it to single phase because of the type of motors. When his wife had the drive retarmaced a year or so latter (chummy was working away at the time) they just worked round the obstruction as if it were a tree. In the end when it did go that machine took several big blokes with prybars and concrete points a few hours to dig out. I kid you not :roll:

Scrit

 

[merylvingien]

I had one of these wadkins bandsaws up until recently, it was pushed off of the trailer onto the spot where it laid for about 5 years with the customary tarpaulin over it.
Couldnt shift the thing, so ended up smashing it to pieces with a sledge hammer and taking it to the local scrap yard.

 

[jurriaan]

Well, contrary to the tone of advice here, I've bought it. Everything is in working order, it has Panhans guides, no broken parts and runs just fine. We've measured twice, and it can fit inside my shed and pass through the door easily. I've taken photos of the access route, which was built for trucks, to the seller and he says transport is no problem. I'll post some pictures once it's here.

 

[Scrit]

Jurriaan

"Contrary to the tone"? I was merely trying to point out some of the pitfalls having bought and used some truly large machinery in the past (like a 4 tonne, 4 metre long CNC router, for example) and on the basis that "forewarned is forearmed". Many people never have to get involved with such large equipment and enthusiasm can sometimes obscure reality in my experience. Taking on a 1 tonne plus, 3 metre high machine which is 50 or more years old is not something the vast majority of posters here would be able to do with alacrity. The Panhans guides are a sign that someone has spent money on it as they are not cheap (personally I prefer the Chaco-style guides, but that's a matter of personal bias - BTW my current main bandsaw has solid wood guides and they work really well)

I hope the machine does ecverything you require of it.

Scrit

 

[jurriaan]

The machine has arrived. I've posted some Photos at the German Woodturnersforum here http://www.drechsler-forum.de/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=7818

The main picture:

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The moving of the saw was relatively troublefree, except the moment when the chain pully that was holding the saw up didn't want to lower it. When I saw that enormous Bandsaur just hanging there, some 3 feet off the ground, just after the trailer below it had been moved out, I was thinking 'how am I ever going to explain this to my wife'.

Luckily, after some judicious violence, the chain pully was convinced to cooperate once more, and the saw was safely lowered to the ground.

Thanks for thinking with me. I've got a lead on a Wadkin DR manual, but no concrete results yet. If anyone has one available, please contact me!

 

[tigerturnings]

Looking good in its new workshop! If only I had the space, the floor and the power supply for a machine of that size...

... Wadkin DR manual, but no concrete results yet. If anyone has one available, please contact me!

Wadkin Ultracare have made a PDF copy of the DR manual available online.

 

[Scrit]

Congratulations. All you've got to do now is get it off the pallet......

Scrit

 

[DomValente]

Lovely, but if it's that big I assume you'll be cutting some biiiiiig timbers , think you'll have to turn it too.

Dom

 

[jurriaan]

As for getting it off the pallet, I did get it off a trailer and onto the pallet so I'm confident there.

One interesting thing to note in the manual (thanks!) - the manual mentions and displays a 'spring controlling saw tension' which appears from the photo of my saw to be completely missing. Hmmmm. I'm going to have to take a good look at that. It not only appears the spring is missing, but the whole assembly taking the spring is absent. Yet when inspecting it, I didn't see any ground off or broken casting at the top.

 

[Gary]

What a beast of a machine. :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

[merylvingien]

Certainly a hell of thing...

Looks to me, like the blade tension of that machine is via the wheel that you can see in the photo hanging down from the top wheel.

Unless you mean some sort of sidewards tensioner?

 

[Scrit]

One interesting thing to note in the manual (thanks!) - the manual mentions and displays a 'spring controlling saw tension' which appears from the photo of my saw to be completely missing. Hmmmm. I'm going to have to take a good look at that. It not only appears the spring is missing, but the whole assembly taking the spring is absent. Yet when inspecting it, I didn't see any ground off or broken casting at the top.

Well, like any bandsaw, there should be two handwheels or knobs controlling the upper pulley wheel - this machine should have a large one to control the tension, which should be mounted inboard of a small one to control the pulley alignment. You appear to have the larger handwheel from the tensioning device mounted on the pulley alignment shaft. Is there a hole or rod on the underside of the upper swan-neck casting to the side of the handwheel? A clearer photograph of the upper bearing box would help as well.

BTW the machine was made before 1947 as Wadkin by that time had moved onto a squared-up guard with sheet metalwork on both sides of the upper wheel.

Scrit

 

[jurriaan]

The manual (in the .pdf link that was earlier) has some horizontal spring thingy above the top axle that I don't have.

However, I notice the photo posted by Scrit earlier doesn't have that, so perhaps my machine is just older.

The bottom part of my machine, including engine and brake, exactly matches the manual, where the lower half in Scrit's photo is different from the manual.

My machine has the big wheel to move the top axle up and down, and a smaller one to adjust the tracking. I guess they made different revisions of this machine, and mine is somewhere in between Scrit's photo and the manual.

 

[Scrit]

My feeling is that there should still be a spring in there, otherwise you are using the frame directly to tension the blade and I just can't see that working at all. The 1936 catalogue says "Saw Tensioning is controlled by a spring and an indicator registers the correct tension for any width of saw". The conventional position for this is between the upper swan-neck arm and the upper pulley wheel, as it is on most modern (and smaller) machines. The photo I posted was from a 1930 publication and Wadkin did change the design of their machines throughout the run of production - but a bandsaw without a tensioning spring?????

Scrit

 

[jurriaan]

I'll go and see tomorrow what I can find. I do have the tension indicator, and it changes when I move the upper wheel up and down.

I didn't have any time today, just paid a sneak visit to the shed to attach a new wire and of course the motor now runs backwards - I'll have to exchange two phases. At least I now know my circuit breakers are compatible

 

[jurriaan]

There seems to be some kind of spring, hidden behind the big top wheel and the sliding carriage of the top axle. The tension indicator consists of two metal rods, one attached to the bottom of the spring, one to the top. Compressing the spring thus changes the reading on the tension indicator.

I can feel the spring, but I can't see it, unfortunately.