I bought some ECE tools from Germany

[Bodgers]

As previously mentioned, I'm trying to get into hand tool working.

Spurred on by the quality of my little ECE Block plane, I ordered a large jointer plane and some other stuff.

I haven't used any of the stuff properly, but the initial impressions are:

ECE Jointer (Primus) - It is large and heavy and nicely finished.
Secondus Plane - Not bad for the money. White beech sole - although spec states Hornbeam.
Mallet - Pretty good
Gents saws - look okish, they were very cheap. Might make a pistol-grip handle for them if they cut ok
Tenon saw - probably not great, plastic handle, and heat treated I think - see 6:20 in the video - can it be resharpened, or is it disposable?
Awl/marking tool - Sweet, nicely finished little thing.

Here is a video of the package, with me talking about the stuff in an uninformed, unknowledgeable, way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM8j_RQDJz8

Once I've used them a bit, and I start to know what I'm on about I may post a review of the two planes.

 

[D_W]

You can sharpen the black handled saw with a diamond file, but it's generally intended to be used and discarded and the price would've reflected that presumably (10-15 euro, maybe).

As far as the gents saw - use it for what it is, learn to file on it (it'll likely be soft), but don't bother handling it. The spine won't have enough weight to make the endeavor worthwhile (yes, it would saw, but you are better off getting a saw with proper weight proportions).

I think the sole of your plane is hornbeam. Beech changes color very quickly after it's finished, and doesn't stay bright white. It would have to be sap to be that bright from the start, but it would still be a slightly different color and have the peacock pattern in it that euro beech has.

 

[Rorschach]

Strange mix of cheap and (what I would consider) expensive tools on that site.

 

[Bodgers]

Strange mix of cheap and (what I would consider) expensive tools on that site.

Yeah, weird isn't it?

They seem to have good prices though on the ECE stuff

 

[Bodgers]

You can sharpen the black handled saw with a diamond file, but it's generally intended to be used and discarded and the price would've reflected that presumably (10-15 euro, maybe).

As far as the gents saw - use it for what it is, learn to file on it (it'll likely be soft), but don't bother handling it. The spine won't have enough weight to make the endeavor worthwhile (yes, it would saw, but you are better off getting a saw with proper weight proportions).

I think the sole of your plane is hornbeam. Beech changes color very quickly after it's finished, and doesn't stay bright white. It would have to be sap to be that bright from the start, but it would still be a slightly different color and have the peacock pattern in it that euro beech has.

Thanks for the info on the sharpening. I will have to buy some files. The dark black marking along the teeth I assume is the heat treating.

Interesting info on the sole - I assumed it wasn't Hornbeam as it has a lot less grain then the block plane body I have - maybe just that particular section is a lot different in the grain pattern.

 

[D_W]

Yes, impulse hardening. I've touched up teeth like that with a diamond file, but in an out of character way, I never paid attention to them afterward (and I never had a saw outlast both the first and the touch up filing before bending a tooth or something since the plate is usually unhardened and the teeth are really hard). The hardness may be more of a surface effect than an all-the-way through kind of thing.

I'd advise using it until it's dull, maybe stoning the teeth with a diamond hone at some point if it has too much set, but otherwise not giving it much attention. Turn your attention toward the multitude of wonderful boot sale saws that you have in the UK and learn your saw doctoring and filing on those if and when necessary.

I'm not telling you to throw away the impulse hardened saw - the teeth on them are much more tolerant of abrasive materials and even if you move on, you'll find a job for it at some point.

 

[patrickjchase]

I'm not telling you to throw away the impulse hardened saw - the teeth on them are much more tolerant of abrasive materials and even if you move on, you'll find a job for it at some point.

Yep. I keep a couple of the impulse-hardened Bahco dispose-a-saws around for exactly this reason.

 

[worn thumbs]

I will be watching with some interest for updates in the coming weeks.I think you ought to leave the gents saw just as it is as it will find one or two situations that allow it's limited height to access a small space.A gents saw is my most used saw and it gets a light sharpening when needed;I have had it for a bit over forty years and it is a Tyzack.I hope yours gives as much satisfaction.

 

[Saer Llongau]

That little ECE block plane would be great if the depth adjuster knob, that doubles as the hand rest, would stay in place when you use the plane. It's the main reason I stopped using it.

 

[Bodgers]

That little ECE block plane would be great if the depth adjuster knob, that doubles as the hand rest, would stay in place when you use the plane. It's the main reason I stopped using it.

Hmmm, interesting. Never had that problem with mine ... Is yours an old one?

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[Saer Llongau]

I bought it about 2 years ago to try it out. Threw it in the bin a week later.

 

[Bodgers]

I bought it about 2 years ago to try it out. Threw it in the bin a week later.

Threw it in the bin!!??

That's £80+!

What I find prevents any kind of movement in the height adjustment is the intentional 1/3 of a turn delay/back lash in the adjuster, which means that even if you do inadvertently move the adjuster, it doesn't alter the blade height. Mine seems to have enough tension that it just doesn't move in your hand anyway.

I've had mine for about 18 months and I use it a lot. The handle/adjuster is 100%. I love it, the sole sort of burnishes the wood.

 

[patrickjchase]

I bought it about 2 years ago to try it out. Threw it in the bin a week later.

I have an ECE-made toothing plane (though it says "Ulmia") and an ECE jointer, both adjusterless, and both have been fantastic for me. IMO the wedged ECE planes are one of the better bargains on the market in a new plane, and as a bonus we need not have reservations about the makers earning living wages or the factories upholding reasonable safety or environmental standards.

While I've never tried the block plane that you had, I have tried the "Primus" version of the jointer and wasn't impressed. While it worked alright the adjuster struck me as adding a lot of complexity to solve something (depth-adjust backlash) that IMO isn't really much of a practical problem to begin with. I think I'll be sticking with the traditional wedged ECEs if I get any more, though I'll more likely make any future woodies or buy them from an individual maker like Phil Edwards.

Responding to an earlier post, the ECEs are available with either Boxwood or "Lignum Vitae" sole inserts. My toother is boxwood, while my jointer is nominally LV. I microscopically examined the end grain of the latter while ago, and determined that it's Bulnesia Sarmentoi, aka "Argentinium Lignum Vitae". Knowing what I do now I would actually prefer a solid beech jointer, but for the price the ECE is still hard to beat.

 

[Bodgers]

I bought it about 2 years ago to try it out. Threw it in the bin a week later.

I have an ECE-made toothing plane (though it says "Ulmia") and an ECE jointer, both adjusterless, and both have been fantastic for me. IMO the wedged ECE planes are one of the better bargains on the market in a new plane, and as a bonus we need not have reservations about the makers earning living wages or the factories upholding reasonable safety or environmental standards.

While I've never tried the block plane that you had, I have tried the "Primus" version of the jointer and wasn't impressed. While it worked alright the adjuster struck me as adding a lot of complexity to solve something (depth-adjust backlash) that IMO isn't really much of a practical problem to begin with. I think I'll be sticking with the traditional wedged ECEs if I get any more, though I'll more likely make any future woodies or buy them from an individual maker like Phil Edwards.

Responding to an earlier post, the ECEs are available with either Boxwood or "Lignum Vitae" sole inserts. My toother is boxwood, while my jointer is nominally LV. I microscopically examined the end grain of the latter while ago, and determined that it's Bulnesia Sarmentoi, aka "Argentinium Lignum Vitae". Knowing what I do now I would actually prefer a solid beech jointer, but for the price the ECE is still hard to beat.

Why the preference for the solid beech - is this type of Lignum Vitae bad?

 

[patrickjchase]

Why the preference for the solid beech - is this type of Lignum Vitae bad?

There are two potential problems with laminated soles like that:

If the two parts are made of different species as in this instance, and if those species have different expansion properties then the presence of the lamination may cause instability. Note that this applies to both the rate at which moisture moves through the woods as well as the amount of expansion at equilibrium. On a related note, Beech has unusual moisture transmission properties along the radial axis because of the high fraction of medullary rays.

Second, the glue line itself acts as a moisture barrier and can alter the response of the plane to moisture changes even if the species are identical.

These potential issues have to be balanced against the wear benefits of the harder sole. My subjective preference is for stability at almost any cost, hence my remark. Others may arrive at differing conclusions.

 

[Bodgers]

Why the preference for the solid beech - is this type of Lignum Vitae bad?

There are two potential problems with laminated soles like that:

If the two parts are made of different species as in this instance, and if those species have different expansion properties then the presence of the lamination may cause instability. Note that this applies to both the rate at which moisture moves through the woods as well as the amount of expansion at equilibrium. On a related note, Beech has unusual moisture transmission properties along the radial axis because of the high fraction of medullary rays.

Second, the glue line itself acts as a moisture barrier and can alter the response of the plane to moisture changes even if the species are identical.

These potential issues have to be balanced against the wear benefits of the harder sole. My subjective preference is for stability at almost any cost, hence my remark. Others may arrive at differing conclusions.

Interesting info thanks.

I just worked on the assumption the crazy toothed joint they use would override any potential problems. Didn't even think about the moisture thing...

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[Phil Pascoe]

We haven't anything like the same climate, though, so whether it would make much difference is debatable. Humidity here is 91% today and drops as far as about 65% once in a blue moon.

 

[D_W]

Why the preference for the solid beech - is this type of Lignum Vitae bad?

There are two potential problems with laminated soles like that:

If the two parts are made of different species as in this instance, and if those species have different expansion properties then the presence of the lamination may cause instability. Note that this applies to both the rate at which moisture moves through the woods as well as the amount of expansion at equilibrium. On a related note, Beech has unusual moisture transmission properties along the radial axis because of the high fraction of medullary rays.

Second, the glue line itself acts as a moisture barrier and can alter the response of the plane to moisture changes even if the species are identical.

These potential issues have to be balanced against the wear benefits of the harder sole. My subjective preference is for stability at almost any cost, hence my remark. Others may arrive at differing conclusions.

Interesting info thanks.

I just worked on the assumption the crazy toothed joint they use would override any potential problems. Didn't even think about the moisture thing...

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk

Some of them eventually separate. I had a NOS primus plane where the joint was letting go a little bit (the top had shrunk more than the sole), but the lignum is really nice, slick and long wearing if you're going to do anything abusive. The movement wasn't too much of an issue for actual use in the one that I had, the joint just wasn't flush all the way around. I couldn't get past the pain in the rear end primus iron holding device coupled with a mediocre chip-prone iron compared to decent quality stanley wares. Some people love them, it's not like they're a complete trash design, but I found their assertions that they had fixed every shortcoming found in stanley planes (which I haven't found myself) to be way off.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Not sure that moist air would be much of a problem given modern glues. Back in the day when all they had for glue was boiled Dobbin, the sort of fancy mechanical joints you see between body and boxing of moulding planes made a lot of sense. Especially in unheated UK workshops!

One advantage of a wooden plane sole (on a flat-bottomed plane anyway, maybe less so on a moulding plane) is that it can be trued up by a woodworker. That goes for one-piece bodies or those with attached soles of different timber.

 

[patrickjchase]

Not sure that moist air would be much of a problem given modern glues. Back in the day when all they had for glue was boiled Dobbin, the sort of fancy mechanical joints you see between body and boxing of moulding planes made a lot of sense. Especially in unheated UK workshops!

Lignum (whether Argentine or the "real thing") is fairly oily and problematic to glue.