How would you stop knife crime?

[PowerTool]

when i was a lad (which wasnt that long ago) most of my contempories carried pen knives or lock back knives - but we used them for cutting things , rather than for cutting each other.

fights were fought with fists and the occasional boot, knee, elbow, headbutt etc and as we were sober at the time it didnt go too far and no one got badly hurt.

Same experience here - I still always carry a knife,but that's because I used to work on a farm,and was then a wagon driver;a knife is a necessary part of your toolkit in such professions,not the "fashion accessory" it seems to have now degenerated into :evil:

Andrew

 

[mailee]

I just heard recently from a work mate that in his neighbourhood was a young 'lad' who had terrorised the residents especially old ladies with a knife for money. He had also been seen vandalising property and the police just were not interested or more like their hands were tied due to all the red tape. A group of locals who were shall we say, 'bruisers' decided a vigilanty approach was needed. They informed the 'lad' why they were going to assault him to which he gave them vebal abuse threatening to inform the police about them thinking he was above the law himself. He still hasn't informed on the gang of vigilanties even though he is still in hospital with two broken legs and a few cuts and bruises! Although I don't condone this it will come to more and more areas if the powers that be don't allow the police to do their job properly. I have no idea how we are going to deal with the young thugs of today but I am glad I won't be staying here in the UK in my old age. :evil:

 

[MrJay]

Hray; that'll teach 'em \o/



oh wait

 

[newt]

When you see the mug shots of these kids why do so many IMO look like crims, sometimes they look fairly normal but not often. Difficult to describe in words, but they look rough, mean, dim looking, often lots of metal in ears nose and throat, staring eyes, shaven head (nothing basically wrong with short hair) they do not look like upright citizens, well of course they are not. This might just be my perception but famous crims the murdering types, have to me a certain appearance, or is this just an association because you know what they have done. My point is does does facial appearance have any influence on behavior. Do they go out of their way to look mean. Bit of a contradiction but many hide their face in hoods.

 

[Rich]

The feeling of family dynamics is one of which I concur wholeheartedly. We won't allow "TV dinners" but insist we all four sit at the dining table for meals and air the days news/problems/laughs etc,etc. Our 18 and 16 year old boys must make us aware of where they are going, when they are returning, where they are, who they are with etc. May seem a bit overkill, but they now respect and are accustomed to the fact that we care!

Mark

I like those sentiments Woody, our dilemma as parents of 2 boys, 16 and 14, is how to indulge them? we live on a council estate which is not too bad by and large, I am in favour of loosening the leash so that they get a bit streetwise, my wife on the otherhand won't hear of it, so we indulge them with computers, tv's, guitars, books, pc games,etc etc.
Like your selves we go out of our way at the weekends to dine together, during the week is impractical,neither of the boys have any malice in them although the youngest is always getting detention, at some stage soon we will have no say in what they want to do other than when they say can I have some money or we can say be in by such and such a time, when that time comes we can only hope they remember what we taught them, but having said that, everyone is allowed to go off the rails once, that's why the rails are there, so that they are easy to get back onto, my mum and dad taught me that simple lesson, and by george, I'm glad they did, because they were there when I went wrong and I got a second chance, loving and caring parents, you can't beat them, they are priceless.

Sorry too be so long,

Regards,
Rich.
.

 

[p111dom]

The way I see it is that it's all about the image. Kids see movies, mags, music video's and whether we like it or not this creates a sort of moral fashion. It's simply seen as 'cool' to act this way, get 'respect', be harder, stronger than the next person. Weapons are the great leveller or so it is perceived. Big bloke versus little bloke, big bloke wins. Big bloke versus little bloke with knife or gun, little bloke wins. I think it will get worse as well. In the states this sort of attitude is all about the money. Kill, steal, sell drugs to get rich. In the UK the kids don't seem to make the connection. They just copy the actions without the justification. There's very little knife 'him and take his wallet, burgle his house, steal his car'. It's all about the image, look hard, act hard, try and scare people. They just don't get it. Well if it's all about image then that's where I think we should start a remedy. Get caught with a knife and don't lock them up to socialise with more seasoned crims and come out worse. Don't just tag them and send them out to do more of the same. I would make them wear a pink tutu and a tiara for a month to school. Put a big sign on their backs saying 'loser walking' or similar. Embarrass them into changing their attitude. Make working hard and earning money the 'new cool'. Make carrying a knife or a gun the losers choice. If it's not cool to carry one then they won't.

 

[RogerS]

The feeling of family dynamics is one of which I concur wholeheartedly. We won't allow "TV dinners" but insist we all four sit at the dining table for meals and air the days news/problems/laughs etc,etc. Our 18 and 16 year old boys must make us aware of where they are going, when they are returning, where they are, who they are with etc. May seem a bit overkill, but they now respect and are accustomed to the fact that we care!

Mark

No, Mark, it's not overkill. It's what I call decent parenting. If other feral monster breeders took as much care as you and your wife clearly do then we would go a long long way towards a better society.



I did ask the Sentencing Guildelines Council for their response to the media reports vis a vis fines. It would appear, according to the SGC, that the media have been selective in their reporting as this extract states...

Three categories of seriousness are presented in the guideline and for each a suggested starting point and sentencing range are set:

· For the least serious form of the offence (where the weapon was carried but not used to threaten or cause fear) the starting point is a high level community order and the range for sentencing is from a high level fine up to 12 weeks imprisonment.

· If the case falls into one of the two more serious categories, a custodial sentence is the starting point. Magistrates’ courts are limited to a maximum custodial sentence of 6 months and the Crown Court to 4 years.

I've skimmed through the Guidelines to Magistrates but can't find the relevant section, though.

What was interesting in the reply was that .....

You ask how much political influence the Sentencing Advisory Panel and the Sentencing Guidelines Council are subject to. The Panel and the Council are two closely linked bodies that operate independently of Government. The Council has 12 members, 8 members of the judiciary (drawn from every level of court that deals with criminal cases), a very senior police officer, the Director of Public Prosecutions, a defence lawyer and a person with substantial experience of victim issues.

The Council draws on advice from the Sentencing Advisory Panel which has an even wider membership, anyone can apply to be a member of the Panel.

The last sentence is interesting and means that those of us who belong to the 'bring back the birch' camp should try and get onto the Panel!

 

[Smudger]

You don't have to go that far. Just talking, caring, being there for kids. Gangs replace the family life kids don't get with their families, peer groups exercise the socialisation function that parents should.

Lord of the flies...

 

[Losos]

We are all to blame........................................................................They have absolutely no respect and that has to come from bad parenting.

Sorry Steve I just can't accept thatwe are all to blame. That implies me and how have I contributed to knife crime :?: , or even the demise of civilised society come to that.

But your last sentance does hit the nail right on the head.

So reverting to your statement 'we are all to blame' I would suggest that the people who are to blame are the ignorant, criminally minded, evil types of parents of which there are far too many in this world.

And of course the low standards of so many people (especially those comming from some other countries)

Parents of so many just don't care - It used to be that children misbehaving got a swipe round the ear from Dad (Or MUm even) now the PC goody two shoes are telling us all it's bad to smack kids so just like my dogs they pretty soon learn that they can do anything and parents can't do a dam thing.

Is it any wonder there's so much knife crime :?:

 

[RogerS]

We are all to blame........................................................................They have absolutely no respect and that has to come from bad parenting.

Sorry Steve I just can't accept thatwe are all to blame. That implies me and how have I contributed to knife crime :?: , or even the demise of civilised society come to that.
.........

Well...think back to maybe 5 or 6 years ago or sometime in the not so distant past and ask yourself whether or not there was an occasion where you saw some kids mucking about or doing something that they shouldn't and said nothing? If you can honestly say that that has never happened then you make a fair point.

But to be honest, I think that most of us and I include myself in that have abrogated our responsibilities and turned a blind eye/not got involved/its' someone elses responsibility. Just one more reason, I reckon, for the demise of our society.

 

[ByronBlack]

There's only one way to reverse the current problem. License breeding. Too many dimwitted scumbags are encouraged by our dopey system to pop out as many creatures as possible to bump up their benefits and have a house/home. Invariably the father is either not around, unware the child is his, or unable to have a role in the childs life due to our dopey laws.

There should be an intelligence/moral/financial test to see if a couple meet the criteria for breeding. This would in a single generation ensure that our gene pool and thus society is only of the right kind.

Controversial it might be, radical it definitely is, but its the way we are going to have to go about things soon when the population of this planet gets too large to sustain.

 

[davegw]

There's only one way to reverse the current problem. License breeding.

:shock: Really how would you stop "unlicensed breeding"?

Too many dimwitted scumbags are encouraged by our dopey system to pop out as many creatures as possible to bump up their benefits and have a house/home. Invariably the father is either not around, unware the child is his, or unable to have a role in the childs life due to our dopey laws.

I'd love to see the Stat's that back that up. I don't believe that many people have children just to bump up benefits, but I have no stats to back that up either.

There should be an intelligence/moral/financial test to see if a couple meet the criteria for breeding. This would in a single generation ensure that our gene pool and thus society is only of the right kind.

I'm afraid genetics have very little to do with any of the traits you describe, possibly something to do with intelligence, but nothing at all to do with morality or financial stability, some of the most immoral people in history have been the richest, and vice versa.

Eugenics (the science you are suggesting) has been resoundingly discredited by some of the great minds of our time, a notable and vocal one is Richard Dawkins. Of course there have been several attempts to use it in the past to justify "fixes" for society (otherwise known as genocide) two come to mind, one in Germany and another in Australia

Controversial it might be, radical it definitely is, but its the way we are going to have to go about things soon when the population of this planet gets too large to sustain.

We could always (and this is radical I know) try to educate the population of the planet to understand how population increases are putting pressure on our resources?

I'm not a soggy liberal by any standard but this (and the breaking of legs suggestion) are just more examples of the extreme (and violent) views that are spreading in society. If it's Ok to for the state to break someones leg for carrying a knife - surely it's ok to Stab them for doing it. if it's ok for the State to incarcerate innocents, sterilize a man or woman, or force an abortion (the only way's I can think of enforcing the breeding ban proposed ) then it's ok for me to retaliate?

Sorry if this reply offends anyone, and it is only my opinion. I know that currently emotions are running high because of the amount of knife crime on the street, but reactionary statements like Byrons really don't help at all.

 

[mailee]

Oh yeah right on Byron. I couldn't agree more with that statement. Radical yes, but IMHO necessary in todays society. I only have one child who is my stepson, he is Chinese as is my wife and he arrived here in the UK at the start of his Senior School days. Both myself and my wife (also Chinese) were worried about him being in an English School mixing with undesirables as most of them have them nowadays. We needn't have worried as his Teacher made sure he became friends with the better boys in the School who took him under their wing so to speak. He knew very little English when he started and speaks it almost fluently now. He has just left School and is going to Uni to study Accountancy after four years at School without any problems with him at all. All his Teachers praised him stating he was a well liked boy and very polite who studied hard. Dare I say it but we are not really tough on him but firm and teach him right from wrong. Surprisingly he cooks at home, cleans the dishes each evening and even cleans house at the weekend while my wife is working! Not wanting to sound like i am blowing my own trumpet but to me that is down to good parenting and nothing to do with the TV as he often watches movies with violence being a Kung Fu fan. I think this just shows that with the right family influence kids turn out just fine. He like me, is dismayed at the goings on we read or hear of in the news concerning kids doing bad things. He is like any teenager of his age who always want's the latest fashion accessories but would never attack anyone for them. :wink:

 

[woody67]

I've read some very emotional and salient points, most of which I agree with entirely. I suppose, as a family, we are lucky living in the backwaters of sleepy Cumbria, but it is with a heavy heart, that I feel the time will soon come when a youngster in our village succumbs to the plague that is knife crime. Nowhere is safe I fear.

Mark

 

[Smudger]

I was doing some work with Year 8 history classes this week, looking at deaths in the Putney and Roehampton Health District in 1871.
In that year, not a special one by any means, there were 56 deaths due to violence. Of those, 11 were children under 10, and the greatest number (19) were males under 30. That compares very well to 2008 - ie 2008 is much safer. Much.

This article may be of interest.

In 35 years working with some pretty difficult kids in that area I have dealt with 2 knife wieldings and 1 airgun.

I'm not saying it isn't a problem, it is, but it is also a hyped up sensational story being pursued by the media.

 

[Digit]

Really how would you stop "unlicensed breeding"?

Knives do have their uses you know! :lol:

Whether or not it's correct it seems logical that the problem starts and finishes in the home.
At the same time I come from a 'broken home' and I've also carried a pocket knife for 60 years and have yet to stab anyone!

Roy.

 

[Rich]

I don't really have an answer or solution but being an engineer, by eliminating certain causes, one arrives at the problem, therefore, if we were to introduce national service once again at the age of 17 years this time for 2 years and monitor the situation, I'm not advocating sending the lads to Iraq or Afghanistan at that age, but more of an excersise in learning from a bloody good sergeant, that there are rules in life and bullies and the like don't get very far, it would teach the lads that you can't get through life on your own, that you need your neighbour, and that you need to trust the man behind you who is holding a loaded rifle,
if this excercise did'nt work, at least we could say we have tried, which is more than leftwing, dogood ministers are doing, I have said it before and I will say it again, the Victorians were no fools, and the best known and handed down phrases was, "spare the rod and spoil the child" I expect one or two to disagree, but I can live with that, It's my opinion, you see.

Rich.

 

[Digit]

I think the argument is valid Rich. The problem, as I see it, is that that is exactly what gang membership promises.

Roy.

 

[BradNaylor]

One of the first novels I can remember reading as a lad was 'When Eight Bells Toll' by Alistair McLean.

The opening scene is of the hero despatching several 'baddies' with a wood chisel.

This has stuck in my mind for 40 years!

Dan

 

[woody67]

I was doing some work with Year 8 history classes this week, looking at deaths in the Putney and Roehampton Health District in 1871.
In that year, not a special one by any means, there were 56 deaths due to violence. Of those, 11 were children under 10, and the greatest number (19) were males under 30. That compares very well to 2008 - ie 2008 is much safer. Much.

Very well pointed out Dick - glad you're back at work BTW. I lecture on violence in health care and often relate to society in general. I know for a fact that many murders, stabbings, strangulations, rapes etc, etc happened in our nearest town (a shipping port) in the 19th century, but many people, especially nationally, were not aware due to the fact that the media bandwagon was nigh on absent - newspapers were expensive in 1871, and as for TV,radio and internet....................

Mark