How would you stop knife crime?

[woody67]

No need to go into the details of recent tragic events, but it has certainly raised issues in our household - comprising of me, Mrs W and 2 teenage boys. I say you wil never stop youngsters carrying knives. If they carried out a blanket ban on selling knives tomorrow - in an attempt to reduce violence, young uns would simply resort to raiding our cutlery drawers. Other solutions have been raised-with conflicting views; i.e National Service and peer pressure etc. What do others think will be a realistic solution ?

Mark

 

[caretaker]

When I was a lad it was the thing to carry flick knifes, the problem is I fain at the site of blood.
Wish I still had that knife for the allotment.

 

[Anonymous]

Heavy fines. Payable by the parents.

 

[skipdiver]

I personally feel it is a societal problem.We are all to blame.I read somewhere that a leading psychologist said:-the biggest cause of the breakdown in society is the demise of the kitchen table.Families no longer sit together for an evening meal and thus problems are not caught early leading to youths becoming disenfranchised.Too many parents now spend far too long away from the family unit trying to earn enough money to buy things they feel they should have and kids are left to their own devices.This raises another issue of a consumer lead society but i will stick to the original point.I think that what happens is these kids then look to their peers in the form of gangs to take the parental role.These gangs then get in some kind of fight and it then becomes an honour thing.Can't back down.Someone gets stabbed.

On sunday night,my brother was walking through the local marketplace when 4 youths stopped him and demanded money.He was under no illusion that they would beat him senseless if he didn't act,so he turned and ran.Luckily there was a late bar open and he managed to get to it before they caught him.He is in his forties with a dodgy knee so had a lucky escape.He could be dead now and the thought makes me feel ill.They have absolutely no respect and that has to come from bad parenting.

 

[StevieB]

First thing to do is ask WHY they are carrying knives in the first place. Is it for the respect of their contempories? To intimidate, to bolster their own ego, to fit in, to protect? Whatever the consequences of it just locking up carriers will not stop it - you need to address the why. Any of the above will not have a quick solution and that in itself is a problem - politicians and law enforcement (due to political targets from both sides) need to be shown to be taking swift and urgent action. Thus for expediency they arrest more people and try and convince us we are all safer because more people have been arrested/charged/fined/jailed etc.

I do think that all politicians must stop the back and forth punch and judy nature of 'this crime rose under such and such a government, it wouldnt have done if we were in power' and sit down together with law enforcement to come up with a best practice plan based on evidence from all sides. This is not a rant at any particular party, they are all guilty of trying to get one over on the other side whether in power or not.

In short tough penalties are a deterrant to only some, trying to tackle the root cause is far more likely to have a bigger effect but over a longer time period.

Steve.

 

[woodbloke]

I've got some sympathy with Skipd's post in that it has to be a problem for society at large and in particular the demise of the family meal at night. So many parent(s) are away from home trying to provide the where-with-all for youngsters so called necessities :? let alone food and shelter that there's not much contact time with the result that they look to their peers and peer pressure inevitably intervenes.
A very complex problem, but one I think that's rooted in the home...the solution lies there - Rob

 

[RogerS]

I agree - poor parenting and no responsibility or penalty for the actions of their feral offspring are most certainly one cause. Likewise weak vacillating politicians and a lack of any coherent strategy or funding into youth groups etc etc. coupled with a reduction in adult volunteers as they (understandably) can't be pineappled to fill in yet another CRB check form to go with the other four that they have already filled in (yup..CRB checks are not transferable).

However I would single out one particular group for outright condemnation. These are the folks who have just mandated that the penalty for carrying a knife is punishable by a fine between one and two weeks wages. You know, the amount of money that your average lad drinks his way through at the weekend. Serious deterrent there, I think.

This is the group who, in their annual progress report make absolutely NO reference to actually trying to deter or punish crime. In fact their website spends more time saying how wonderful they are in producing reports and how diverse they are (diverse as in equal opportunities blah de blah de blah).

So when you come back from Cloud Cuckoo Land, stand up and be counted, boys and girls of the The Sentencing Guidelines Council and your partners in crime The Sentencing Advisory Panel. Go walk down any city centre late at night without a police escort and then stop navel gazing and actually do something sensible to reduce crime. Or resign.

You can read all about them here. I've read quite a few of their reports and a more sycophantic back-slapping self-congratulatory hogwash I have yet to find. Fair ,made me want to stick my fingers down the back of my throat.

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Give back parents, teachers and police the right and responsibility to discipline these vermin.
Bring back public birching. If the POS is stood in the town square with his pants around his ankles squealing for mummy he isn't going to look such a grand hero to his peers.

 

[RogerS]

Give back parents, teachers and police the right and responsibility to discipline these vermin.
Bring back public birching. If the POS is stood in the town square with his pants around his ankles squealing for mummy he isn't going to look such a grand hero to his peers.

How can you suggest such a thing? Not only is it against his/her human rights it goes against Govt policy.

Sorry.....slipped into b**ls**t-speak for a moment there. Bloody good idea!

 

[lurker]

MY SOLUTION to all this country's ills, is to ban career politicians. Most of them - even those in their late 50s & 60s are so niave its startling.

If THEY had to share the streets & public transport with the rest of us things would quickly change.

It gets more like Animal Farm by the day.

 

[Argee]

A very complex problem, but one I think that's rooted in the home...the solution lies there.

Indeed it is complex, Rob, but the parents who now need to take responsibility are the least likely to step up, given that their lack of action to date has probably led to the situation, as you say.

There are already sufficient offences and powers to search on the statute book, but there seems to be a reluctance to enforce and/or sentence if enforced. That's a complete mystery to me, as that seems to be the only deterrent we've got.

Pleading to the sensibilities of those carrying will - in the vast majority of cases - fall on deaf ears. Trying to convince those who carry for "self-defence" to desist is going to have no effect until those who carry to use are inside (no such defence in law, just possible mitigation).

The most difficult thing seems to be to get witnesses to tell the truth - is that any wonder when society seems to lie as a way of life? Many of the most popular TV programmes rely on lies for their story lines. There are even shows entirely based on lies. Seems to me that good, honest behaviour and social respect is no longer "cool."

Ray.

 

[lurker]

Ray,

Quite true.
Virtually every "self made millionaire" and prosperous company in this country appears to be bending if not breaking the law. It sends out a very negative message.

Knowing ( slightly) your background would you find it offensive if I said that, from what I can see Chief Constables ( via PR machines) are a bunch of liars as well?

 

[davegw]

I always find it interesting when we are faced with "crises" in society like this.

I don't think Knife crime (or at least people carrying Knives) is new, As a teenager (some 25 years ago) I carried a knife, not to look cool or because I was in a gang, but because I was afraid of a local bully who carried one. Mine was bigger (of course).

I had what I would describe as a very good upbring by caring parents, who didn't flinch from telling me off or even handing out the odd smack. When they found out I carried a Knife I was told off, severly, and grounded (it wasn't called that then but the effect was the same). My mum "clipped me round the ear" to ensure that I understood what was going on

My Dad then sat me down and explained to me why he was so angry, describing a friend of his, who some 30 years earlier, had been in a similar situation, and had been seriously injured in the ensuing knife fight! That (and not the punishment) made me stop carrying a knife and in fact I joined youth CND as well but we can have the argument for unilateral disarmament another day

I think there will always be idiots that carry weapons, and the real problem today is lack of respect, for teachers, police, elders. Knife attackes, anti social behaviour etc, etc are all symptons of tha. Unfortunatley we can't reverse 30 years + of a soppy, liberal education system overnight, especially whilst we persist it. I don't believe that we need a return to corporal punishment by the state or the school, I had teachers who could control a class without the threat of violence, and those people need to be encouraged to return. Once you start to build respect into children for adults then all else follows IMHO

Dave

 

[big soft moose]

I think there will always be idiots that carry weapons, and the real problem today is lack of respect, for teachers, police, elders. Knife

to paraphrase the song - knives dont kill people - idiots do. The real issue is not why are kids carrying knives but why are so many hanging arround in the town centre getting out of their tree on blue wkd and billy whizz

when i was a lad (which wasnt that long ago) most of my contempories carried pen knives or lock back knives - but we used them for cutting things , rather than for cutting each other.

fights were fought with fists and the occasional boot, knee, elbow, headbutt etc and as we were sober at the time it didnt go too far and no one got badly hurt.

 

[Argee]

.... would you find it offensive if I said that, from what I can see Chief Constables ( via PR machines) are a bunch of liars as well?

Absolutely not - they're politicians first, servants second, with very few exceptions.

Ray.

 

[bluezephyr]

If knives are banned there will be something else, Ok its only movies but you see Sharp instruments being fashioned out of scrap metal and that in prisons, Thats whatll happen, But for street use!.

The youfs of today who hang about on street crners and outside shops n that are really nasty little scrotes now, We used to hang about when i was about 14 but we didnt cause any trouble and certainly didnt feel the need for carrying knives and weaponry.

Not sure of a solution, I dont think there is one, put all the badduns together in a battle royale type situation.

As far as having something available to protect my home, Thats a different story!

 

[woody67]

The feeling of family dynamics is one of which I concur wholeheartedly. We won't allow "TV dinners" but insist we all four sit at the dining table for meals and air the days news/problems/laughs etc,etc. Our 18 and 16 year old boys must make us aware of where they are going, when they are returning, where they are, who they are with etc. May seem a bit overkill, but they now respect and are accustomed to the fact that we care!

Mark

 

[davegw]

they now respect and are accustomed to the fact that we care!

Mark

Respect is so key to this I think, and it's not just kids, I am just on the train home, and when the train was about to leave a very respectable chap tried to open the (already locked) door. The Platform staff told him that he was too late and should use the train on the opposite platform that left in 5 minutes time, at which point he subjected HER to the most abhorant tide of verbal abuse I have heard in a long time, especially directed at a woman.

She was just letting him know the situation, she hadn't locked the door, nor was she using an unreasonable tone, she was just doing her Job (quite well).

Why should youngsters show respect to anyone when this is the kind of attitude so called adults take (and don't get me started on Gordon Ramsey and Alan Sugar!)

 

[MrJay]

Word - as role models go, grown ups are a pretty dismal lot. Also, ban television. There's a curious serendipity about atrophying in front of the gogglebox day in/day out and then moaning about the breakdown of society.

If knives are banned there will be something else...

As long as it's not my best chisels.

 

[bluezephyr]

As long as it's not my best chisels.

Street corner carving and whittling, A New fashion amongst the Asbo's