How would you rate the UK's handling of this pandemic?

[RobinBHM]

We are still in a position where we have to live with this virus and let it spread

You can keep repeating, but it's still wrong.

 

[Selwyn]

'Operation Banner was the operational name for the British Armed Forces' operation in Northern Ireland from 1969 to 2007, as part of the Troubles. It was the longest continuous deployment in British military history.[10][11] [...] More than 300,000 soldiers served in Operation Banner.[12] At the peak of the operation in the 1970s, about 21,000 British troops were deployed, most of them from Great Britain.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Banner

That was not martial law

 

[Selwyn]

Without lockdown, infection rates would've been higher, NHS would've been more overloaded and even more non Covid departments would've been out of action.....resulting in higher non Covid deaths.

So you are making a false argument.

Yet the peaks occurred before lockdown in each case. Funny that....

 

[RobinBHM]

split the number over two winters and it comes more into line with having a couple of bad flu years

Why do you keep repeating something that is not true?

Please point out which year 700+ health workers died from flu

 

[Selwyn]

You can keep repeating, but it's still wrong.

Its not. You think it will magically stop spreading?

80% of people approve of the govt restrictions.

Your claim of "under duress" is untrue.

Most people understand there is a need for collective action.....just a minority that can't handle being told what to do.

No read carefully. I said we do not need the Army to enforce rules under duress - it is not what we do in the UK for the whole populace. Most people are happy with social distancing and the need to give space, wash hands etc. A huge number of people are not happy to see their kids lives pissed away, their business' wrecked and debts ramped up massively. People who are genuinely vulnerable and want a lockdown need to stop being so selfish and shield themselves away for 6 months and stop wanting others who are not to bail them out. If masks worked we would not see the increase in spread, the fact is they are useless.

Why do you keep repeating something that is not true?

Please point out which year 700+ health workers died from flu

Outside the very serious and very obvious and neglected "peak" of covid last year where it was spreading - how many health workers have died of covid since? And how many have died of other causes?

 

[Chris152]

Droogs said:
Ever heard of Peterloo or the battle of Suchiehall street or Bloody Sunday or any of the other dozen occassions the army was used to fire on kill and suppress the civillian population. I suggest you go read the meaning of the word ignorance and learn english syntax in order that you can recognise when someone is pointing out where you are incorrect about something and is not actually trying to insult you and hopefully preventing your own kneejerk attempt at an insult as you have done here.

I would suggest you wallow in your own semi flaccid fantasies regarding politics and world affairs rather than play with the grown ups

Selwyn said (well, actually he wrote): These were all isolated incidents, to placate protest or riots in small geographical points of conflict where police were non existent or unable to control the situation. They were not used as a blanket tool for conforming the whole populace under duress. There is a massive difference.

That was not martial law

It was 'used as a blanket tool for conforming the whole populace [or at least a significant part of it] under duress', contrary to what you wrote.

Struggling to get my head round the new quoting system.

 

[RobinBHM]

Yet the peaks occurred before lockdown in each case. Funny that....

I've already proven they did not in a previous post.

Would you like me to explain it again for you?

 

[Selwyn]

I've already proven they did not in a previous post.

Would you like me to explain it again for you?

No because you were wrong.

At some point you lockdown fanatics will have to start facing up to the idea that we will need to get back to normal life.

 

[RobinBHM]

Its not. You think it will magically stop spreading

Yes it is.

Healthcare workers and essential,workers don't die from flu.
Hospitals aren't overwhelmed by flu

 

[Awac]

That was not martial law

Not technically, but it has happened in the past and had a negative effect. Depends if you consider that the UK was/is a foreign country with an occupying force in the ROI?
"The United Kingdom declares martial law in Ireland for one month on April 25, 1916, the day after the commencement of the Easter rising. A curfew is imposed from 8:30 PM until 5:00 AM. Anyone spotted on the streets during the hours of darkness are to be shot on sight".

 

[Selwyn]

Yes it is.

Healthcare workers and essential,workers don't die from flu.
Hospitals aren't overwhelmed by flu

Of course hosptials get overwhelmed by flu. It happens every so often.

Healthcare workers tend to have prior immunity to flu like all of us.

How many healthcare workers have died since say, October?

I can tell you the number of deaths for health workers from non covid deaths is much much higher than from covid

 

[Rorschach]

Of course hosptials get overwhelmed by flu. It happens every so often.

Healthcare workers tend to have prior immunity to flu like all of us.

How many healthcare workers have died since say, October?

You are wasting your time, Robin doesn't believe anyone should die of anything, you are in a losing position, nothing you can say will ever change his mind, 1 death is too many for him.

 

[RobinBHM]

No because you were wrong.

No, I am correct, but you are unable to accept the evidence because it breaks the foundation of your argument.

I note you've provided zero evidence to back up your claim....perhaps you could let me know when you might do that




average time of infection to start of symptoms = 4 days
Average time symptoms to death = 13 days

time from 23rd march to 8th April = 16 days

And once you add in the fact that significant restrictions started before lockdown and for tolerance in the data accuracy, your argument is incorrect

sources:
https://assets.publishing.service.g...CIN_-_Time_from_symptom_onset_until_death.pdf

If you've been exposed to the coronavirus - Harvard Health
As COVID-19 continues to spread, the chances that you will be exposed and get sick continue to increase. If you've been exposed to someone with COVID-19 or begin to experience symptoms of the disease, you may be asked to self-quarantine or self-isola...

www.health.harvard.edu
.

 

[RobinBHM]

Of course hosptials get overwhelmed by flu. It happens every so often

When have hospitals been overwhelmed by flu to the same extent?
Please tell me which year

Please note, that's despite the vulnerable shielding etc etc

 

[RobinBHM]

You are wasting your time, Robin doesn't believe anyone should die of anything, you are in a losing position, nothing you can say will ever change his mind, 1 death is too many for him.

Oh dear oh dear

apagogical argument



This government and many others around the world have a huge pool of scientists to analyse Covid data.
Virtually every government agree: The best way is restrictions to lower infection spread.

Rorschach and Selwyn say: "we can analyse the data better than governments"

But what it boils down to is: neither of you can handle being told what to do for collective benefit, so you continue to make dishonest arguments.

 

[Selwyn]

When have hospitals been overwhelmed by flu to the same extent?
Please tell me which year

Please note, that's despite the vulnerable shielding etc etc

The rate of infection slowed well before lockdown. You can see it on all the data curves. It speeds up fast and then slows.

Hospitals are frequently overloaded. Election year we had "people lying in the corridor without beds" didn't we? What makes it worse at the moment is a lot of health workers are not at work (positive test but not ill) and beds spaced out. So we have a staff shortage as well.

Tell me how many health workers have died of covid since say, July?

 

[RobinBHM]

I can tell you the number of deaths for health workers from non covid deaths is much much higher than from covid

Excess non Covid deaths as a result of loss of hospital services due to Covid would be higher if there were no or little Covid restrictions.

Why are you still dishonestly claiming that somehow the 30k extra deaths could have somehow been saved if there was no lockdown?

What is it you don't understand?

 

[Awac]

You are wasting your time, Robin doesn't believe anyone should die of anything, you are in a losing position, nothing you can say will ever change his mind, 1 death is too many for him.

Interesting. How many deaths is too many?

 

[doctor Bob]

Oh dear oh dear

apagogical argument

Googled that ........ I am a bit more knowledgable.

 

[RobinBHM]

The rate of infection slowed well before lockdown. You can see it on all the data curves

No it didn't.

The graphs have been posted here numerous times.

Why do you persist in posting opinions presented as fact already proven incorrect?