How would you rate the UK's handling of this pandemic?

[Selwyn]

Oh dear oh dear

apagogical argument



This government and many others around the world have a huge pool of scientists to analyse Covid data.
Virtually every government agree: The best way is restrictions to lower infection spread.

Rorschach and Selwyn say: "we can analyse the data better than governments"

But what it boils down to is: neither of you can handle being told what to do for collective benefit, so you continue to make dishonest arguments.

To be honest I'm doing what needs to be done. Keeping my distance and my contacts reasonably low.

I have no objection to that. I do object to the shutting of shops apart from multinationals food shops, I do object to the shutting of schools and the ruination of childrens education when the evidence of transmission in school is not there and I do object to the trashing of business' and livelihoods.

 

[Noel]

This is what happens when the C19 deniers/conspiracists/it's only flu/bit of a cold people have an audience. Not directed at anybody here but I couldn't believe how thick and stupid this guy and his 2 fellow nutters are. Anti-botics? If that was his only mistake.....



The patient was apparently sedated and put into an induced coma some time after this encounter. The main bloke is apparently well known for saying such things as: "........... there is no evidence that Covid-1984 exists or indeed any proof that SARS-CoV-2 causes it. Now call me a liar "

 

[Rorschach]

Interesting. How many deaths is too many?

How long is a piece of string?
How many is too many for you?

 

[Rorschach]

@Noel that is a bit worrying as he wants to go home. Have they sectioned him? It's his right to go home (and die possibly) if he wants to.

 

[Noel]

@Noel that is a bit worrying as he wants to go home. Have they sectioned him? It's his right to go home (and die possibly) if he wants to.

There's a bigger picture Rorschach. Unauthorised entry into an acute ward, unauthorised filming, filling the poor guy's head with complete tosh. It is against C19 regulations for a hospital to discharge a patient if their clinical status is not suitable.
I sincerely hope the patient survives.
Meanwhile our helpful friend is needed for a wee chat with the local police:
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidst...fter-abuse-directed-at-hospital-staff-241463/

 

[Selwyn]

Excess non Covid deaths as a result of loss of hospital services due to Covid would be higher if there were no or little Covid restrictions.

Why are you still dishonestly claiming that somehow the 30k extra deaths could have somehow been saved if there was no lockdown?

What is it you don't understand?

Because the NHS wasn't overwhelmed. They definitely could have saved a lot of those lives with some interventions. I'm shocked you can't see that. We had a few summer months of a shut nhs.

 

[Selwyn]

This is what happens when the C19 deniers/conspiracists/it's only flu/bit of a cold people have an audience. Not directed at anybody here but I couldn't believe how thick and stupid this guy and his 2 fellow nutters are. Anti-botics? If that was his only mistake.....



The patient was apparently sedated and put into an induced coma some time after this encounter. The main bloke is apparently well known for saying such things as: "........... there is no evidence that Covid-1984 exists or indeed any proof that SARS-CoV-2 causes it. Now call me a liar "

Who is saying that Covid doesn't exist? Not me

However it statistically still the case that about 99.5%+ of cases will not result in death.

 

[Awac]

How long is a piece of string?
How many is too many for you?

Well brother, since you have thrown the question back to me without giving a figure, one death that can be avoided is one death too many...I am sure you would feel the same if you were the one.

 

[Awac]

This is what happens when the C19 deniers/conspiracists/it's only flu/bit of a cold people have an audience. Not directed at anybody here but I couldn't believe how thick and stupid this guy and his 2 fellow nutters are. Anti-botics? If that was his only mistake.....



The patient was apparently sedated and put into an induced coma some time after this encounter. The main bloke is apparently well known for saying such things as: "........... there is no evidence that Covid-1984 exists or indeed any proof that SARS-CoV-2 causes it. Now call me a liar "

I am stunned that his ancestors made the leap to breathing air.

 

[doctor Bob]

Well brother, since you have thrown the question back to me without giving a figure, one death that can be avoided is one death too many...I am sure you would feel the same if you were the one.

Why don't we throw say an arbitary £50 million at every cancer patient then or increase tax to a flat rate of 70% to fund an unbelievable life saving NHS.
I appreciate £50m per head still wouldn't save all cancer patients but it would be a start, we could up it to £100 million / head if it saves one life.
Surely it's all a balancing act, and the ideology of saving every life is just not possible and could be detrimental to other things which may be more important. For example, should £1million be spent on 97 year old doris, or a prosthetic leg for 3 year old jimmy, where is the best spend. Difficult choices but these are made very day by clinitians and the NHS (sooner them than me)

 

[Rorschach]

Well brother, since you have thrown the question back to me without giving a figure, one death that can be avoided is one death too many...I am sure you would feel the same if you were the one.

There in lies the problem, almost every death is avoidable if we spend enough money and take enough care. That isn't a viable option though.

EDIT: Bob said it better than me.

 

[Noel]

Who is saying that Covid doesn't exist? Not me

However it statistically still the case that about 99.5%+ of cases will not result in death.

See the the “not dir......,.” bit in my post.

 

[Rorschach]

There's a bigger picture Rorschach. Unauthorised entry into an acute ward, unauthorised filming, filling the poor guy's head with complete tosh. It is against C19 regulations for a hospital to discharge a patient if their clinical status is not suitable.
I sincerely hope the patient survives.
Meanwhile our helpful friend is needed for a wee chat with the local police:
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidst...fter-abuse-directed-at-hospital-staff-241463/

Oh yeah I am not defending the nutter making the video, but I am worried about the old chap. However wrong he might be, he has a right to deny treatment.

 

[doctor Bob]

This is what happens when the C19 deniers/conspiracists/it's only flu/bit of a cold people have an audience. Not directed at anybody here but I couldn't believe how thick and stupid this guy and his 2 fellow nutters are.

Frightening, all comes from social media.
I know you're not finger pointing here. Like you I don't think we have nutters on here.
I like arguements to date on here, I think also probably unlike the "political" threads there is wiggle room.
I started of treating the illness very lightly, probably on the side of less lockdown. As time has progressed I've moved to accepting lockdown is important, but still maintain the economy has to keep going.
My real conundrum is education, I feel so sorry for kids missing out. My son is an only child and we always had his friends round, I find this unimaginable that he might have grown up for a year possibly 2 with no or very little physical friendships.

 

[Noel]

Oh yeah I am not defending the nutter making the video, but I am worried about the old chap. However wrong he might be, he has a right to deny treatment.

It’s up to the clinician staff to decide that, he has an infectious disease, not to mention his overall health. Look up your government’s C19 laws.
I suspect his “friend” has filled his head with so much nonsense that he believes he does not have C19 and it’s all a silly old hoax and the staff are just having a larf and are getting backhanders from Bill Gates.

 

[Awac]

Why don't we throw say an arbitary £50 million at every cancer patient then or increase tax to a flat rate of 70% to fund an unbelievable life saving NHS.
I appreciate £50m per head still wouldn't save all cancer patients but it would be a start, we could up it to £100 million / head if it saves one life.
Surely it's all a balancing act, and the ideology of saving every life is just not possible and could be detrimental to other things which may be more important. For example, should £1million be spent on 97 year old doris, or a prosthetic leg for 3 year old jimmy, where is the best spend. Difficult choices but these are made very day by clinitians and the NHS.

Read carefully. "Avoided" is the operative word. Yes the world is full of compromises and tough decisions. Does not stop you trying to save lives if you are able. The ideology of trying to save every life is a good one, if not always possible.
If 50m per head is too much, why are some people dying in third world countries for the want of a couple of pounds treatment? Is that too much? Doesn't balance does it? The argument you are putting forth does not hold any substance.

 

[Selwyn]

Why don't we throw say an arbitary £50 million at every cancer patient then or increase tax to a flat rate of 70% to fund an unbelievable life saving NHS.
I appreciate £50m per head still wouldn't save all cancer patients but it would be a start, we could up it to £100 million / head if it saves one life.
Surely it's all a balancing act, and the ideology of saving every life is just not possible and could be detrimental to other things which may be more important. For example, should £1million be spent on 97 year old doris, or a prosthetic leg for 3 year old jimmy, where is the best spend. Difficult choices but these are made very day by clinitians and the NHS (sooner them than me)

That isn't a difficult choice for anyone!

Even if 97 year old Doris was my mum and little Jimmy live 10k miles from me. Jimmy always takes priority.

 

[Noel]

Frightening, all comes from social media.
I know you're not finger pointing here. Like you I don't think we have nutters on here.
I like arguements to date on here, I think also probably unlike the "political" threads there is wiggle room.
I started of treating the illness very lightly, probably on the side of less lockdown. As time has progressed I've moved to accepting lockdown is important, but still maintain the economy has to keep going.
My real conundrum is education, I feel so sorry for kids missing out. My son is an only child and we always had his friends round, I find this unimaginable that he might have grown up for a year possibly 2 with no or very little physical friendships.

Indeed, here’s the guy’s YT feed:

https://youtube.com/channel/UCsKuyPMQzEXlhEm9HIk3ANQ

 

[doctor Bob]

Read carefully. "Avoided" is the operative word. Yes the world is full of compromises and tough decisions. Does not stop you trying to save lives if you are able. The ideology of trying to save every life is a good one, if not always possible.
If 50m per head is too much, why are some people dying in third world countries for the want of a couple of pounds treatment? Is that too much? Doesn't balance does it? The argument you are putting forth does not hold any substance.

Sorry, I really haven't got a clue what your point is now. Don't worry it's Probably me.

 

[Blackswanwood]

That isn't a difficult choice for anyone!

Even if 97 year old Doris was my mum and little Jimmy live 10k miles from me. Jimmy always takes priority.

So would you advocate we pare back on geriatric care via the NHS and funding new children’s hospitals in Bangladesh?