How would you rate the UK's handling of this pandemic?

[Rorschach]

The ideology of trying to save every life is a good one, if not always possible.

Oh that's alright then. So you like the idea of saving every life, but not worried about the tricky bits like the details. Lovely, glad we cleared that up.

 

[Droogs]

Why don't we throw say an arbitary £50 million at every cancer patient then or increase tax to a flat rate of 70% to fund an unbelievable life saving NHS.
I appreciate £50m per head still wouldn't save all cancer patients but it would be a start, we could up it to £100 million / head if it saves one life.
Surely it's all a balancing act, and the ideology of saving every life is just not possible and could be detrimental to other things which may be more important. For example, should £1million be spent on 97 year old doris, or a prosthetic leg for 3 year old jimmy, where is the best spend. Difficult choices but these are made very day by clinitians and the NHS (sooner them than me)

Well @DrBob if you were a pen pushing bean counter it would be on Doris as she would probably get a far longer use out of the leg as little Jimmy is gonna grow in size ovr the next few months and she might live longer than that.

 

[Droogs]

Oh yeah I am not defending the nutter making the video, but I am worried about the old chap. However wrong he might be, he has a right to deny treatment.

@Rorschach, yes he has every right to refuse treatment but no right to be released to go home in a contagious conditon from hospital, that would lead to charges of criminal negligence against the hospital and Drs and the Guv'ment has forbidden them from doing so

 

[RobinBHM]

but not worried about the tricky bits like the details

The irony

You seem to think there is an alternative way....but you can't provide the details.

 

[Rorschach]

The irony

You seem to think there is an alternative way....but you can't provide the details.

You need to join Jacob at Radio Rentals

 

[RobinBHM]

Hey Rorschach and Selwin, what's your response to this:

"the CMO, CSA, their colleagues in the regions, Ministers, officials – are unaware of the data flaws identified...and despite their decades of cumulative experience, they are making major public health decisions totally oblivious to the catastrophic misreading of the data the amateur lock-down sceptic sleuths have uncovered...or they are aware of them. And – for reasons no one has yet rationally explained - are carrying on regardless, perpetuating one of the greatest public health hoaxes in history."

 

[selly]

So would you advocate we pare back on geriatric care via the NHS and funding new children’s hospitals in Bangladesh?

I think that is a different question.

 

[selly]

Hey Rorschach and Selwin, what's your response to this:

"the CMO, CSA, their colleagues in the regions, Ministers, officials – are unaware of the data flaws identified...and despite their decades of cumulative experience, they are making major public health decisions totally oblivious to the catastrophic misreading of the data the amateur lock-down sceptic sleuths have uncovered...or they are aware of them. And – for reasons no one has yet rationally explained - are carrying on regardless, perpetuating one of the greatest public health hoaxes in history."

Who said it was a hoax? We are discussing whether lockdown is the best way of controlling a virus and whether it screws too many lives up.

 

[RobinBHM]

You need to join Jacob at Radio Rentals

Ad hominem......a sure sign of no counter argument.



Please can you provide the data and details that back up your argument that lockdowns are unnecessary........oh, you can't can you?

You claim Covid is no worse than flu, but you can't explain why so many healthcare professionals have died from Covid, but not from any bad flu season.....you can't provide any details

You claim Covid is no worse than flu.....but you can't explain why hospitals are far more overwhelmed than any flu season.....you can't provide any details

You claim that infections started falling before lockdown started.....but you can't provide the details to back it up.


Details eh

 

[Rorschach]

Ad hominem......a sure sign of no counter argument.



Please can you provide the data and details that back up your argument that lockdowns are unnecessary........oh, you can't can you?

You claim Covid is no worse than flu, but you can't explain why so many healthcare professionals have died from Covid, but not from any bad flu season.....you can't provide any details

You claim Covid is no worse than flu.....but you can't explain why hospitals are far more overwhelmed than any flu season.....you can't provide any details

You claim that infections started falling before lockdown started.....but you can't provide the details to back it up.


Details eh

Not sure if it's the tone arm or the motor belt.

 

[Blackswanwood]

I think that is a different question.

Is it Selly? I read Selwyn’s reference to Jimmy being 10k miles away as being beyond the reach of the NHS. Are the two of you related by any chance?

 

[RobinBHM]

Who said it was a hoax? We are discussing whether lockdown is the best way of controlling a virus and whether it screws too many lives up.

So.

The exact same argument applies.

the government are making lockdown decisions based on the massive cumulative experience of scientists

They say non pharmaceutical interventions lower the infection rate.

Why do you think Rorschach, Selwyn and you know better?

Serious question, why?

 

[RobinBHM]

Not sure if it's the tone arm or the motor belt.

Please can you tell me why 700 healthcare professionals have died from Covid, but there have been no reports of hundreds of such deaths in bad flu seasons......yet you argue Covid is no worse than flu.

There is only two possible scenarios:

1. You can provide evidence of similar deaths of healthcare professionals from flu

2. You can't and admit that your claim "Covid is no worse than flu" is simply unfounded.

Which is it?

 

[RobinBHM]

How long is a piece of string?
How many is too many for you?

How many more deaths would no lockdown cause?

How much more would NHS be overwhelmed and how many more non Covid health deaths would there be?

 

[Awac]

Oh that's alright then. So you like the idea of saving every life, but not worried about the tricky bits like the details. Lovely, glad we cleared that up.

I'm talking about intent (no that's not camping). Thought I would throw a joke in here because you are obviously having a laugh.
Seriously, change my mind, show me that I am wrong to think that every death that can be avoided should be? I like a challenge to my own world views, maybe I am wrong?

 

[selly]

Is it Selly? I read Selwyn’s reference to Jimmy being 10k miles away as being beyond the reach of the NHS. Are the two of you related by any chance?

One is my phone login, and one is my computer no big conspiracy

 

[selly]

So.

The exact same argument applies.

the government are making lockdown decisions based on the massive cumulative experience of scientists

They say non pharmaceutical interventions lower the infection rate.

Why do you think Rorschach, Selwyn and you know better?

Serious question, why?

Because I'm aware of the damage it is doing to our society. And the fact the virus is so obviously seasonal. Along with evidence from other countries and indeed past viral infections (look at swine flu for example) that lockdowns will only serve to make things worse.

As you don't appear to leave your bedroom you won't be aware of it.

 

[selly]

Please can you tell me why 700 healthcare professionals have died from Covid, but there have been no reports of hundreds of such deaths in bad flu seasons......yet you argue Covid is no worse than flu.

There is only two possible scenarios:

1. You can provide evidence of similar deaths of healthcare professionals from flu

2. You can't and admit that your claim "Covid is no worse than flu" is simply unfounded.

Which is it?

Tell me how many healthcare workers have died of covid since July of covid and of other causes please Strawman.

It's not as bad as flu for a lot of people. It is for some.

 

[selly]

I'm talking about intent (no that's not camping). Thought I would throw a joke in here because you are obviously having a laugh.
Seriously, change my mind, show me that I am wrong to think that every death that can be avoided should be? I like a challenge to my own world views, maybe I am wrong?

I think when you get to care home stage it's more important to have a good death or as good and dignified death as possible rather than seeking to prolong life particularly.

Is this a controversial view nowadays?

 

[selly]

How many more deaths would no lockdown cause?

How much more would NHS be overwhelmed and how many more non Covid health deaths would there be?

Lots of data suggests the virus would burn itself out pretty quickly like they all do.