How would you rate the UK's handling of this pandemic?

[Rorschach]

well how did NZ have more advance warning?

if you cant answer, I can only presume you dont know?

I am not saying NZ can be compared to UK, we know it cant totally different demographics.........but I cant see how NZ had advance warning, makes no sense

Advance warning might not the best phrase then. They saw the infection spreading in Europe countries before it had properly made it to NZ (which was going into it's summer) and were able to do track and trace in ideal circumstances. By the time we identified our first cases in Europe it was already endemic and T&T was a waste of time. We know it was spreading in Europe as early as October 2019, when did we first identify a case in the UK?

 

[Selwyn]

well how did NZ have more advance warning?

if you cant answer, I can only presume you dont know?

I am not saying NZ can be compared to UK, we know it cant totally different demographics.........but I cant see how NZ had advance warning, makes no sense

It arrived in a NZ summer which was a benefit. They will have more covid deaths in due course, vaccine or not

 

[Rorschach]

A certain person will love this one I am sure. Interesting question asked of an MP (who obviously didn't/couldn't answer) in relation to easing lockdown and returning to normal going forward. What is an acceptable number of C19 deaths per year?
It's obvious this is a seasonal endemic virus, so the number will never be zero, and it's obvious that having hundreds of thousands of deaths per year is unsustainable (not that it would ever happen). But what do we consider acceptable?

 

[julianf]

Another record smashed today -

Last week's weekend lag took us to 1500 in a day.

This week we have topped 1600.

But just imagine how bad it would have been with that Corbyn chap.

(Or some other such non existent excuse for the massive failings of our currently leadership)

 

[Woody2Shoes]

......

Cratering the economy causing mass unemployment, mental health issues, record national debt levels, education deficiencies for low income groups, just so Auntie Doris can spend an extra five months being incontinent in a home - not genocide.

Except that the whole point of lockdown is/was to try not to blow up the NHS so all (or as many as possible) the non-Covid people with cancer/heart-attacks etc. can still get access to health care as needed.

The difficulty we have had is spineless politicians blaming "the science" rather than their own inability to stand up to all the crusty old gits on the backbenches representing the vested interests and watering down restrictions. We now have the worst of both worlds (a health service close to its limits and no, or very badly diminished, ability to help urgent non-Covid but life-threatening/changing cases).

I know four people (including an octogenarian parent) who have had Covid - one died (male, early 70s), two have had life-changing long-covid for more than six months (male, 45 and female 55), and one has gone back to being incontinent as before. I know one woman ( early 60s) diagnosed with metastatic cancer who is still - fingers crossed - able to access healthcare (but for how long?).

 

[julianf]

I wonder who the scapegoat will be at the next election?

I mean we have this one-trick-pony of a government now, because the right wing media managed to convince a load of people that the EU was the enemy.

So I wonder who the enemy will be next time.

Three years to wait. The covid mess will be largely swept under the carpet by then.

 

[RobinBHM]

Advance warning might not the best phrase then. They saw the infection spreading in Europe countries before it had properly made it to NZ (which was going into it's summer) and were able to do track and trace in ideal circumstances. By the time we identified our first cases in Europe it was already endemic and T&T was a waste of time. We know it was spreading in Europe as early as October 2019, when did we first identify a case in the UK?

UK was warned by Italy weeks beforehand.

But Johnson chose herd immunity because he thought it was an opportunity to make money.
Johnson was also warned by China weeks beforehand.

Johnson was also warned by scientists to do all he could to suppress the virus over the summer or the 2nd wave would be very bad.

Johnson was warned to lockdown in Early October, which ignored.
Same thing at Christmas.

 

[RobinBHM]

It arrived in a NZ summer which was a benefit. They will have more covid deaths in due course, vaccine or not

This seems to be incorrect.

The Covid pandemic was not seasonal.
It didn't arrive in NZ because they stopped foreigners from or via China on 3rd February.
16th March anybody arriving from abroad had to self isolate.

It was government intervention that stopped Covid in NZ, not seasonality

 

[RobinBHM]

They saw the infection spreading in Europe countries before it had properly made it to NZ

Sounds plausible, but the facts disagree:


New Zealand started stopping people entering the country on 2 feb

The first Covid case in Italy was 21st Feb

 

[Selwyn]

This seems to be incorrect.

The Covid pandemic was not seasonal.
It didn't arrive in NZ because they stopped foreigners from or via China on 3rd February.
16th March anybody arriving from abroad had to self isolate.

It was government intervention that stopped Covid in NZ, not seasonality

It is definitely seasonal. Its why we had much reduced summer deaths in the UK and all of Europe

Italy had a peak in Bergamo area, it didn't have it everywhere else. There are factors that led Bergamo area to have such a profound spike.

Wales locked down in late October it did no difference.

 

[Selwyn]

Sounds plausible, but the facts disagree:


New Zealand started stopping people entering the country on 2 feb

The first Covid case in Italy was 21st Feb

Covid was all over the continent way before then

 

[RobinBHM]

The difficulty we have had is spineless politicians blaming "the science" rather than their own inability to stand up to all the crusty old gits on the backbenches representing the vested interests and watering down restrictions

Yes this is true

Decisive harder faster lockdowns would've resulted in lower deaths.

 

[Selwyn]

I wonder who the scapegoat will be at the next election?

I mean we have this one-trick-pony of a government now, because the right wing media managed to convince a load of people that the EU was the enemy.

So I wonder who the enemy will be next time.

Three years to wait. The covid mess will be largely swept under the carpet by then.

We will probably see when the dust settles that most countries handled it similarly because as a virus its tricky to suppress once endemic. You can get excited about daily death tolls etc but they don't really mean anything statistically the infection curves aren't radically out of kilter one country to another in Europe.

 

[Selwyn]

Yes this is true

Decisive harder faster lockdowns would've resulted in lower deaths.

I think the disruption and hysteria of lockdown and its after effects is going to be way worse than if we had kept normal society functioning with the least anxiety, but I think you are more Covid tunnel visioner than able to look at the bigger picture.

Remember we only locked down a few weeks after Italy and they were reluctant to do it and the virus was endemic by then anyway, we just did a safe political manouvre. So I think you probably feel clever being wise after the event but unless we locked down in Nov 2019 it would have made no difference. Most transmission is and was in the home

 

[RobinBHM]

It is definitely seasonal. Its why we had much reduced summer deaths in the UK and all of Europe

No, the first wave was not seasonal.

The WHO said it was one wave.

Once the population has significant immunity it will become seasonal.

 

[Selwyn]

No, the first wave was not seasonal.

The WHO said it was one wave.

Once the population has significant immunity it will become seasonal.

No the first wave was the invasion but it came to us at a time of year when respiratory issues were high. Where it got to other countries later then thought they had beaten it (slovakia I think) but their first wave just came in the autumn even though endemic in the summer. It became seasonal before the first lockdown

 

[RobinBHM]

I think the disruption and hysteria of lockdown and its after effects is going to be way worse than if we had kept normal society functioning with the least anxiety, but I think you are more Covid tunnel visioner than able to look at the bigger picture

I appreciate that is what you believe, however what you've said is opinion mixed with some emotive adjectives.

Please could you explain how it's possible to keep normal society functioning through a pandemic caused by a novel virus?

Given that London hospitals are pretty much overwhelmed
Given that hundreds of nurses, doctors, essential,workers have died.

I'm not sure how not imposing restrictions would've resulted in "normal society functioning"

 

[RobinBHM]

No the first wave was the invasion but it came to us at a time of year when respiratory issues were high. Where it got to other countries later then thought they had beaten it (slovakia I think) but their first wave just came in the autumn even though endemic in the summer. It became seasonal before the first lockdown

The WHO says otherwise.

Why do you know better?

 

[julianf]

We will probably see when the dust settles that most countries handled it similarly because as a virus its tricky to suppress once endemic. You can get excited about daily death tolls etc but they don't really mean anything statistically the infection curves aren't radically out of kilter one country to another in Europe.

There are many many ways to, statistically, represent how well or badly a country has performed during this time.

If you want to disregard simple statistics, like, for example, deaths per 1m of population, which make the uk look really quite poor indeed, could i ask -

What data puts the uk's handling of this in a favourable light?

 

[RobinBHM]

We will probably see when the dust settles that most countries handled it similarly because as a virus its tricky to suppress once endemic. You can get excited about daily death tolls etc but they don't really mean anything statistically the infection curves aren't radically out of kilter one country to another in Europe.

Dead healthcare workers
Dead essential workers
Hospital admissions higher than any flu
Long Covid damage

Those things mean a lot statistically.

research is certainly showing non pharmaceutical interventions reduce infection spread.[/QUOTE]