How much for a router!!??

[D_W]

Probably. If you're going to cut narrow grooves, that's a plane to avoid, anyway.

Record's plastic handled planes are fantastic and they're cheap as chips over there where you are. I paid to have one shipped here with all of the cutters (there must be 15 or 20) and it was still only a hundred bucks total - enough for me to spring for a marples version of the 50 (which is better than the 50) for another hundy, also with a full complement of irons in a nifty holder.

 

[Tasky]

I've never seen anyone collecting router planes, and I didn't see any left in his piles after public sale

Might that be because routers are less used by the industry as a whole and so rarer in general, whereas most woodworking trades will make use of a Bailey-type plane?
Or might it be that collectors already snapped up the routers?

but there were hundreds of forlorn bench planes that didn't sell at a quarter each.

Any in good condition, though, or were they all forlorn?

They're high because of Paul Sellers and his videos. That's it.

There must be some people who try woodworking, give up and flog the stuff on, though?
I'm surprised that it'd be just him, though, especially as he does the whole cheapskate series of tools...
Maybe it's because these gurus don't all have their own line of branded tools for FanBoys to buy?

Record's plastic handled planes are fantastic and they're cheap as chips over there where you are.

The Record 050 and the 050C are apparently quite different in terms of fantastic-ness... and I wonder if the prices are generally low-ish because people don't know the difference?

 

[D_W]

Speculating on tool flow for the roy underhill type viewer is interesting. I have bought (in the past) numerous Lie Nielsen planes used. It's cheaper. None of the planes that I've purchased have ever been honed past the factory primary bevel despite being years old.

Point of that being that I think a large percentage of non-forum woodworkers don't know of an easy way to relieve themselves of unnecessary tools, so just because they won't be used, I wouldn't expect to see a glut of them on ebay any time soon.

A friend of mine, who got me into woodworking, has 6 LN planes and has for at least 12 years. One (the block plane - the one plane every normite can figure out) has been honed past the primary bevel. I don't think any of the rest have. This friend knows he will never use the planes a significant amount, but he also never sells anything. The idea comes up, but it's not something he has the know-how to do, and like a lot of people who've never faced reality, he doesn't have any interest in giving a share of the price to ebay or selling for any less than he paid.

I'm sure there are a lot of unused miter boxes sitting in shops, too. And router planes.

re: the 1600 planes - I didn't get to the sale. The coworker brought me a box full of planes to look at, informed me that they didn't sell for a quarter, but they'd been repriced (at an average of $100 each) for future sale. I think 1600 planes were just too many. The serious collectors bought the valuable planes (planes with stamps still on them, no 1s, etc) and probably had no interest in parting out irons that were (back then) only worth a few bucks, and same with frogs. Many of the remaining planes had broken handles, huge amounts of wear on the sole, evidence of having been cut (marked 7s that were now the length of a 6, etc).

I'd have bought a lot of them at a quarter, but I don't generally like to waste a day at a sale, either. Until the internet came around and made everyone want type 11s and scraper planes, the popular planes around here for collectors were sweetheart era planes with stickers still on them (and box), 1s and 2s and obscure block planes. I have some doubts about whether or not they were collecting router planes unless they were unused and with box. Most collectors here think it's absurd that someone would pay more for a type 11 plane than they would for a sweetheart era plane, or any plane that's ever been adulterated (restored).

(short version: Pretty sure this one's paul's fault in demonstrating a not-so-common tool when compared to the 4s and 5s.)

It would be interesting to see the price of items driven up by collectors. Escher stones (which the shaving community loves) have gone from $100 to $600 in a fairly short period of time. There's nothing interesting about them that makes them any better than any other decent natural stone, but they're consistent and their label makes them easy to identify....and they're still well outdone by four dollars worth of green paint pigment).

Things that come to mind just in my short woodworking history (that went up and now have gone back down):
* stanley everlasting chisels as the ultimate woodworking chisel. At one point, they were two to three times the price of a 750. Who uses them?
* miter boxes - thanks chris
* really big thin plate tenon saws for cabinet work (another thanks from chris)
* stanley 5 1/4 planes - for some reason when I first started, there was a sentiment that they were superior to more common planes
* 4 1/2s over here - the same giddiness for them doesn't exist over there because they're common there, but there have been times where clean ones were well over $100 when the price for a similar 4 was a third of that.
* corner chisels (who actually uses one of those from day to day?)
* scrub planes - recall when it was all the rage and LN and LV had to splash out metal models of those? Horrible planes to use compared to a wooden jack plane
* Insert any of the latest and greatest sharpening methods (kings, then shaptons, then scary sharp and honing films, ...)

 

[D_W]

Record's plastic handled planes are fantastic and they're cheap as chips over there where you are.

The Record 050 and the 050C are apparently quite different in terms of fantastic-ness... and I wonder if the prices are generally low-ish because people don't know the difference?

[/quote]

Forgot - the record plane actually works fine but has a different holder than the early stanley 50s. Yes, I bought one of the early stanley 50s, only to find that it couldn't grip the narrow irons very well (and that's what I'd bought it for). Hundred dollar mistake that ended up only costing me about $20 after reselling. Had the 55, 45 and 46, too. All long gone. Same with the metal rebate planes.

The record planes don't show up here that often compared to the stanley planes. I never see them in tool shops, but there are a couple on ebay - generally have sold for a premium (even the later not-so-special ones) over a good shape vintage stanley.

 

[Bodgers]

I've never seen anyone collecting router planes, and I didn't see any left in his piles after public sale

Might that be because routers are less used by the industry as a whole and so rarer in general, whereas most woodworking trades will make use of a Bailey-type plane?
Or might it be that collectors already snapped up the routers?

but there were hundreds of forlorn bench planes that didn't sell at a quarter each.

Any in good condition, though, or were they all forlorn?

They're high because of Paul Sellers and his videos. That's it.

There must be some people who try woodworking, give up and flog the stuff on, though?
I'm surprised that it'd be just him, though, especially as he does the whole cheapskate series of tools...
Maybe it's because these gurus don't all have their own line of branded tools for FanBoys to buy?

Record's plastic handled planes are fantastic and they're cheap as chips over there where you are.

The Record 050 and the 050C are apparently quite different in terms of fantastic-ness... and I wonder if the prices are generally low-ish because people don't know the difference?

What's the difference between the two btw? I assumed the 'C' version was the newer one - in a similar way to what the newer Stanley 13 series plough is to the 45/50. Cheaper materials but pretty much the same in function, no?



Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk

 

[Bodgers]

Probably. If you're going to cut narrow grooves, that's a plane to avoid, anyway.

Record's plastic handled planes are fantastic and they're cheap as chips over there where you are. I paid to have one shipped here with all of the cutters (there must be 15 or 20) and it was still only a hundred bucks total - enough for me to spring for a marples version of the 50 (which is better than the 50) for another hundy, also with a full complement of irons in a nifty holder.

I was considering the 50C. They are still 70+ on eBay though. There is always a new Luban plough from Workshop Heaven..

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk

 

[JWD]

That wooden router looks incredible! i might have to give it a go! Can i Ask where you got the hardware from derek?

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

I've got links to random bits of router plane useable hardware here...
the-keeper-router-plane-wip-t109785-15.html

 

[JWD]

that's such a useful article and a brilliant outcome! would you say that the weight was sufficient in that plane? or do you think it would be worth creating some recesses for adding extra weight?

 

[yetloh]

I bought the Veritas from Classic Hand Tools last autumn and they had it in stock. Lovely tool, both to look at and to use.

Jim

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

That wooden router looks incredible! i might have to give it a go! Can i Ask where you got the hardware from derek?

The only "hardware" was the eye-bolt. This was sized to fit the Veritas blade shaft. Using Veritas blades offers up a wide selection of sizes to use. There is a plan on my website, along with a pictorial of the build.

The Veritas Large is an exceptional router plane. It is akin to using a Norris-with-an-adjuster. The wooden router is akin to a woodie. You use a hammer to adjust the depth ... however there is a depth stop for the final depth of cut. It is surprisingly easy to use with great accuracy, and refreshing to be free of adjusters (as many woodie users will say). Both types are excellent users.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[D_W]

I hope its more like a prewar Norris without adjuster!

 

[Tasky]

Speculating on tool flow for the roy underhill type viewer is interesting.

What type of people are his bviewers, incidentally?

It would be interesting to see the price of items driven up by collectors. Escher stones (which the shaving community loves) have gone from $100 to $600 in a fairly short period of time. There's nothing interesting about them that makes them any better than any other decent natural stone, but they're consistent and their label makes them easy to identify....and they're still well outdone by four dollars worth of green paint pigment).

Pretty sure I Googled those last time you mentioned them and found that everyone thinks they're bog-standard junk, from shavers to carpenters, with the only exceptions being a few axe-competition lumberjacks and some collectors that pay stupid money for them. IIRC everyone else seemed to value them at $70 max...!

What's the difference between the two btw? I assumed the 'C' version was the newer one - in a similar way to what the newer Stanley 13 series plough is to the 45/50. Cheaper materials but pretty much the same in function, no?

In basic function, yes, but I understand people who use these more than once a year generally prefer the 050 or the 044 to the 050C... might be summat to do with the plastic, maybe?
I like mine well enough, though. £35 from an antique shop in Shropshire.

 

[D_W]

No on the eschers - different than barber hones. You may have looked up a norton axe man, which is definitely not bog standard junk - it's equivalent to a lot of the "wonder stones" being sold now that are "new innovations", except it's been made for near eons now. And it works dry.

The eschers have always been well regarded, and the company went out of business when their supply of good thuringians dried up. They didn't go down the ladder and start using coarser nearby veins and allow their buyers to tell them they were junk, they just went out of business instead. Someone reorganized and tried to make a go with pressed-together stones from the dust remaining from processing the original stones "E&Co", but they weren't as hard and that venture, too, went out of business. One of the few times when someone says a stone disappeared from the market because the natural source was rare and completely clapped out. Some variants were expensive even when they were new (on the order of two to three days' wages for a barber, or to be specific, up to $9 here in the states before the 1920s inflation - a princely sum).

They were a nice stone for $100. At $600, they've been boosted to absurd status by razor forums where the moderators and others have a pile of the stones and want to make sure that they don't lose money if they decide to sell. The true limited supply and inability to mine new ones keeps their value up and incents antique pickers using apple apps to put them on ebay when they find them.

Roy underhill viewers where I grew up (mostly rural) were generally not woodworkers. They just thought the show was interesting and Roy was an interesting charismatic character wearing overalls and walking though town carrying an axe. Here in the states, I didn't know any hand-tool woodworkers in the 1980s (or 1990s), but a lot of men watched Norm and Roy on PBS.

I'd be willing to bet that Roy's viewership has changed as follows:
1) there are fewer viewers of the show
2) the percentage of viewers who are woodworkers has increased

The Normites actually doing woodworking were a little more common where I lived, but most people who had a shop had one because they had built part of their own house, or because they had refurbished one. The only people making money on furniture were refinishers.

 

[D_W]

Derek, I've taken your advice and ordered the veritas router. I don't love the aesthetics or the lack of an open front end with a foot, but I'll just keep one of the planes that I have that are set up like that. I've been cutting the ends of my dadoes clean with a paring chisel and roughing the centers out slightly deep where they won't show. Maybe I can cut them clean from end to end like a responsible adult, now (I could've with the stanley, I guess, but now I have no excuse).

I looked at my routers last night (I've only used the stanley a significant amount - it's a 71, IIRC), and my closed end router is a millers falls 77. it's pretty sloppy and I've never really thought about why don't use it instead of the stanley (sometimes you use something a couple of times and you don't think specifically about it, but you subconsciously notice that it doesn't work quite as well and find little favor in it without analyzing a reason - that's the case with this one). Not sure if it's just my MF 77 (the clamp is a bit of a hassle because it's not made neatly enough to keep from falling all the way down to its bend, and when you clamp it tight, it's not actually tight, it's barely holding on a curved area).

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

David, I'm pretty sure that you will like it.

I have never found a reason to have an open toe on a router plane. For example, the support from the toe is needed when clearing the waste from a hinge mortice. It does not matter one way or the other if all you are doing is levelling a dado (I also first clear it fast with a chisel).

A feature that is under-appreciated on the Veritas is the spring-loaded blade capture. This makes it possible to hold the blade steady when adjusting the depth of cut. The other feature, which is recognised, is the wide selection of blades (as well as the accessory for inlay). LN have a great router plane (version of the #71), however such a small selection of blades, and this takes them out of the race. Both these planes are taut in use, which I do like and why I prefer them over a vintage Stanley.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[custard]

Derek, I'm sure the Veritas router is a superb tool, I've never used it but I'd be very happy to have one. However, I have used both the vintage Stanley/Record style as well as a LN. They all did exactly what I wanted and I never found myself wanting for a particular cutter.

I do lots of inlay work and I'd be sceptical about pressing a router into service for this particular task. Perhaps it's okay for very basic inlay, but pretty soon you need a huge variety of cutter widths which you'll never get from a hand router (a power router is a different matter). Furthermore, for inlaying into veneer I'd be very concerned about tear out or chipping along the fragile edges. The best tools for inlay work are a scratch stock, a power router, or something along the lines of a purfling cutter. Happily Veritas offer excellent purfling style inlay cutters at a reasonable prices, and I've used them for both straight and curved work with fine inlay and can vouch as to how effective they are.

One final point. Sometimes I find myself wanting to use a router plane for cleaning up the cheeks on larger tenons. Vintage Stanley/Record, LN, and Veritas don't quite have the reach so it's necessary to cobble together something like this.

Not a big problem, but I'd have been more impressed if Veritas had come up with a solution to this rather than promoting their router as a not so great inlay tool.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I do lots of inlay work and I'd be sceptical about pressing a router into service for this particular task. Perhaps it's okay for very basic inlay, but pretty soon you need a huge variety of cutter widths which you'll never get from a hand router

Hi Custard

Are these enough ...

Note that the router plane comes with a 1/2" and a V-blade is also available.

I have found this inlay cutter very useful (It shims out to a range of widths) ...

Custard, I doubt that I could teach you anything about inlay. The point of my post was not to disparage Stanley or LN, but to emphasise that Veritas is a better router. Even so, I accept that others have their preferences. I used a Stanley for a number of years before the Veritas. It is very capable.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[D_W]

David, I'm pretty sure that you will like it.

I have never found a reason to have an open toe on a router plane.

I like to see through the toe. I realize that's a bit of a diva demand as far as routers go, and I could do without it

No slight to the Canadian crew, but the Stanley router's style is far more attractive than the Veritas, and I can't part with that for now :?

The stanley that I have has all the pieces (toe foot and all, so it can be used like a closed router), I guess I'm just being a pig right now. IIRC, I bought the MF router when I did just because I found it for very little money.

 

[Student]

I recently bought a Veritas large router plane and I love it. Derek mentions all the various cutters that you can fit to it and the manual lists quite a large number. However, I can't seem to find anyone in the UK who stocks them other than the 1/4 inch one. Does anyone know of a UK stockist of Veritas router cutters?