How do you sharpen turning tools?

[davegw]

I have to agree with Allen - The Tormek is the one for me, and the jigs are nice and easy to set up so that I can turn around and resharpen throughout the project without much pain.

If I could sharpen freehand I am convinced that I'd be better off with a dry grinder, but I can't and I don't have the kind of time I'd need to practice to get to that proficency, so the Tormek is the one for me

It's not an exageration to say I would have given up on Turning if it wasn't for the Tormek, I found it so hard to sharpen tools without completly ruining the edge I couldn't produce a single quality item.

 

[greybeard]

Started freehand, cheapy Clarke grinder IIRC, blued most things. But managed to restore - approx - chisel edges from screwdriver type abuse. And reshaped hammer head to be flat and round again (after brick splitting practice).

Discovered turning. Realised much learning/practice required.
Brought Draper combination wet n dry (flat wetstone), and was generally pleased.

Found this site, lurked - read and read and read, and then read some more.
Spent chunk of bonus on Tormek....and only then realised just how poor my previously obtained edges had been.

Now it varies, sometimes the Draper drystone......but mostly the Tormek. Not always with the jigs (fiddly at first!), but have learnt - eventually - that fiddly is good!

 

[rsser]

There's a comparo of dry grinding vs wet grinding/honing on the performance of spindle tools in issue 70 of Woodturning.

Dry grinding forms a hard burr which is difficult to remove with a slipstone and which compromises tool performance.

The test didn't look at bowl tools.

I can't afford a Tormek in any case so just live with the burr ... but it's starting to cause an itch ;-}

 

[Tusses]

When I am turning , I keep a bobbon sander in my drill press. as I am turning, I just kep freshening the edge on the sanding wheel form time to time.

 

[TEP]

When grinding/sharpening any edge wet or dry you will always get some sort of wire or burr on the edge. Yet as soon as it goes to the wood the burr is broken off.

Some of the 'old timers' used to stab the freshly sharpened edge into the end grain of a piece of their bench to take the burr off. Personally I don't think it really makes a lot of difference, do whatever is good for you. In turning there is so much wood passing under the edge in such a short time that it doesn't really matter, your at the grinder so often anyway.

 

[rsser]

Yes, I used to think that but acc to the Farrance article in Woodturning, while spindle cutting the burr from dry grinding is very hard and lasts for several minutes. When it does break down, it's possible to conclude from his tests that cutting performance improves briefly before the tool is properly dulled.

 

[CHJ]

...... When it does break down, it's possible to conclude from his tests that cutting performance improves briefly before the tool is properly dulled.

He is lucky to get two bits of wood, or even one for that matter, that behave/s consistently enough to be able to tell the difference, I never can.

Persons who consistently use the same wood type for their niche work, Japanese Dolls, Fine porcelain like Pierced Work etc. obviously have a better chance for comparison. Earlier This year I waited for a Russian Turner (of Dolls) to spend 20 minutes honing his skew like tools on a traditional slipstone, before he achieved the 'shaving test' and then proceed to shape wood not dissimilar to Lime very skillfully, I could have achieved the same or better edge on a honing wheel in 10 seconds, go figure the relative merits if you are earning a living.

I have played around with Dry grind, Wet grind, Honed, Diamond dressed, with Burr, without Burr and have never yet had the same consistent results on two different samples of wood let alone different species.

Of course it may be just my lack of professional aptitude but I doubt there are many turners who are earning their living at quantity production rates that bother about such niceties.

I often watch demonstrations of quality turning with very sharp tools that produce off the tool items that are good to go and show excellent tool control etc. But I also know that I could hand them a piece of similar looking wood that would be impossible for them to achieve the same finish.

 

[Paul.J]

I use the Perform dry grinder now,from Axminster using the Sorby jig.
Getting a lot better cut and the edge seems to last a lot longer
Before this i was using a wet grind,home made Tormek style,but free hand grind.

 

[Bodrighy]

At the end of the day John you are used to using tools that are really sharp, honed with secondary bevvels that you can shave with. Look at the amount of wood that is on the floor when turning and ask .yourself how long it would take to shave all that off when making boxes. and how many time you would be at your stone rehoning. I am lousy at sharpening and probably have a different bevel every time I sharpen a gouge. I make sure my bevel is on the wood before cutting and so far I find that I am achieving a reasonable finish that gets better with practice.
So much depends as Chas said on the wood that you are using, your skill level and the tool itself.

I think it was Bonnie Klein who said that the most important tool in a turners toolbox was the sandpaper, (heresy to some :evil: ) but since I found bronet and started going through the grades properly my lack of sharpening skils have become less apparent

Pete

 

[rsser]

Farrance used samples of English Ash and Radiata Pine for the tests.

Given it was spindle turning it wouldn't be too hard to get several pieces from the same long that you could expect to cut similarly.

Yes, the study was some distance from a double-blind randomised trial in which all variables were controlled apart from the experimental one. Nonetheless, it's the only one of its type that I know of and it shook my belief that honing was a waste of time.

It didn't deal with scrapers or faceplate work - a whole new field for the microscope equipped obsessive ;-}

 

[CHJ]

........ it's the only one of its type that I know of and it shook my belief that honing was a waste of time.

I have found that honing of the metal adjacent to the cutting edge (I.E. polishing it) is an advantage to the free flow of chippings.

However unless you are very and I emphasize Very careful when honing a bevel it is easy to round over the very edge of the bevel such that the cutting edge is extremely sharp but will appear as blunt when presented to the wood because the cutting edge is held a minute fraction above the wood surface by the bevel, this only cuts when the tool is lifted and of course then the bevel is giving minimal support and can "dive" into the wood.

On Hand carving tools this is not a problem but on a rapidly spinning bit of wood it can be disastrous.

This is I believe why several kits of Honing wheels/compounds sold for Carving tools carry a note to the effect " Not suitable for Turning Tools"

Even sharpening on a belt sander may give this effect if the belt is not well tensioned as the belt tends to lift as the pressure reduces as it leaves the cutting edge (wave effect) especially if pressure is applied to the tool.

I know I am not capable of honing the bevel on a turning gouge consistently and with speed on anything other than a very hard honing substrate, polishing the gouge flute on a beveled wheel is less likely to cause a noticeable problem in my experience. I do regularly hone the bevel on skew chisels.

This is just my take on the subject many others disagree entirely, in the end you try it yourself and if it works go for it.

 

[rsser]

Yes, I agree that dubbing the edge is easy to do when honing.

I wonder if our HSS gouges acquire a wear bevel on the flute? (as per Brent Beach's images of plane iron wear). If that occurs, we'd have to be grinding past it every time we sharpen in order to maintain bevel geometry. Honing only wouldn't be enough. Just a thought.

 

[CHJ]

You are grinding away material sharpening far quicker than any wood wear on HSS.

An in any case cutting edge geometry varies every time you present a tool to the job, there is no mechanical control element like a plane sole to form a standard.

 

[rsser]

You are grinding away material sharpening far quicker than any wood wear on HSS.

Indeed, though maybe not with honing, which was my point. It needs to be studied.

An in any case cutting edge geometry varies every time you present a tool to the job, there is no mechanical control element like a plane sole to form a standard.

By geometry I'm referring simply to two intersecting planes and their included angle. So if there's a wear bevel on the flute or skew eg. to restore the geometry it would have to be ground away. Question is do we get wear bevels, if so how long? I don't know but it would seem logical given the photomicroscopy of plane iron edges. I'm waiting on a digiscope to do some checking.

 

[davegw]

Don't know if you get it, but my copy of "The Woodworker" arrived yesterday morning and there is a good review of the Tormek "Touch and Turn" jig set for turners by Alan Holtham I think

Dave

 

[rsser]

Thanks Dave.

No, I don't subscribe.

What does the review cover?

 

[davegw]

He mainly covered this http://www.tormek.com/en/kits/tnt708.php

and say's that it has changed the way he sharpens tools. Seems a bit OTT but you can judge for yourself.

Dave

 

[hobbler]

Should have got s lesson off that Funky Chicken you had recently visit you.

 

[davegw]

Should have got s lesson off that Funky Chicken you had recently visit you.

:? :? :? :? :? :? :?

Sorry Hobbler? Not sure I know what you mean?

 

[hobbler]

Should have got s lesson off that Funky Chicken you had recently visit you.

:? :? :? :? :? :? :?

Sorry Hobbler? Not sure I know what you mean?

apologies for not replying sooner the comment was meant for Devonwoody