How do you make supporting joints when only using hand tools on green wood?

[woodlearner9810182]

When I was not limited in tools or materials I would have a rough idea of what I wanted to make such as a table or bed frame, begin it, then when I got some semblance of what I was going for and it was wonky, just add those pieces of wood to make a triangle at the corner or put a block/cube butting against the corner. Not sure of their correct respective names.

In these instances they were easily fastened down with screws.

Yesterday I was able to make the beginnings of a frame using hammer, chisels and saw making mortis and tenon joints to form three sides of a rectangle.

Now when I put them together and aimed to get an idea of what to do next it dawned on me how I would make supporting joints with these limited tools?

Mortis and tenon I noticed not only takes a long time, I did each one in about 2 hours which is ok for main joints and sounds similar to kris harbour in the time he said it took him to do his roundhouse joints initially, unpracticed, even with his power tools, but also quite a bit of space on the frame and I don't really see that as being feasible for the supporting joints due to the time it would take and probably many required.

Also they require quite a bit of precision. Something I don't have the luxury of with the limited tools and at 45 degree angles I imagine that would be impractical.

Pegging, since using greenwood, I am guessing that the pegs would just fall out after a couple of months once the wood got smaller from drying out and the pegs no longer grabbing?

So any suggestions to solve this issue? The supports, from my small previous experience, are like one of the most important bits binding everything together to make a solid structure.

Of course in keeping with the limited tools at my disposal. I would really prefer not to have to buy any more at all if I can get away with it.

 

[TheUnicorn]

Pegging, since using greenwood, I am guessing that the pegs would just fall out after a couple of months once the wood got smaller from drying out and the pegs no longer grabbing?

My experience with green wood is limited but I think that as the moisture leaves the surrounding wood, as you say, it gets smaller, and therefore tightens around the pegs not loosens, logically the pegs would need to be seasoned and the workpiece green

 

[woodlearner9810182]

My experience with green wood is limited but I think that as the moisture leaves the surrounding wood, as you say, it gets smaller, and therefore tightens around the pegs not loosens, logically the pegs would need to be seasoned and the workpiece green

Hmm didn't know that. I will not have the luxury of seasoned pegs as would be using all the same stock for the wood unless I bought a couple of just any old normal commercial timber for the pegs only as I guess would only need a plank or two to make loads of pegs.

 

[Sam Kilby]

Or the old chair making trick, heat a tin of sand on a stovetop or potentially a fire from the sounds of it. Put the bits that are effectively going to be tenons (or pegs) in the sand to rush dry them. Then a bit of additional shaping and they ought to grow when they suck in more moisture. Might make sense for the pegs to be from at least air dried stock though, not green. And the strongest/best pegs are riven not cut (maybe invest in or make a froe ?)

 

[stuckinthemud]

If you have a microwave you can season even quite large pieces of timber by using short bursts on defrost. Don’t overdo it,

 

[TheUnicorn]

I have a friend who uses a microwave to season wood before turning, he weighs it, cooks it (not sure of the setttings) and reweighs it, basically rinse and repeat until the weight is stable

 

[Tris]

When inserting the pegs leave them long, a fingers width will do, then open a slot across the end with a chisel and tap in a slender wedge. As the wood shrinks you can keep tapping the wedges in to tighten up the peg

 

[Tris]

If you haven't already got one a chalk line is well worth getting. Raise your roundwood beam up on trestles and clamp it (well tied down will do) then snap a chalk line along the centre. Use a level or plumb line to mark verticals on either end at the centre. Use these to measure out your joints and they will always be in the same plane even if your timber is crooked

 

[Tris]

A good brace and set of bits is great for clearing the bulk of a mortice, leaving a lot less chisel work to do.
A good bow or frame saw with a greenwood blade is essential

 

[sometimewoodworker]

So any suggestions to solve this issue? The supports, from my small previous experience, are like one of the most important bits binding everything together to make a solid structure.

The ideal way is to have the main pieces green and drill peg holes in them with the smaller pieces dry. Doing it that way as the wood dries it will grip the pegs like a vice. You want a green wood drill bit and a round tenon tool, I got mine from lee valley .

I have used the technique to make a number of rustic racks about 10 years ago, I did use a few nails as a belt and braces approach. None of the racks have shown any signs of falling apart.

Here is an example, the smallest pices have 2 nails each,


as it’s For outdoor use I spent almost no time on making it look less rustic, I probably made it in a morning.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

When inserting the pegs leave them long, a fingers width will do, then open a slot across the end with a chisel and tap in a slender wedge. As the wood shrinks you can keep tapping the wedges in to tighten up the peg

If the pegs are dry you will not need to do that

 

[Tris]

If the pegs are dry you will not need to do that

No, true. I should have been clearer about meaning if the pegs were green too

 

[sometimewoodworker]

No, true. I should have been clearer about meaning if the pegs were green too

Getting the pegs dry before assembly is rather easy. If you have larger tenons then letting them dry will give a rock solid fitting.
Here are another couple of examples that have been in use for years in our outdoor kitchen
None of the joints have any movement and only termites could change that