Holdfasts

[ColeyS1]

So I'm outside with a 240V drill and a lump of 6x6 green oak, wanting to drill 50 or 60 twenty mm by 80mm deep holes in preparation for chiseling out half a dozen mortises. You've taken my spade bit off me.........what am I supposed to use?

An auger bit ?

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[MikeG.]

You can't stop them easily at the right depth, and you can't adjust their direction as you can with a spade bit. Besides, they cost a fortune, and so they're not the sort of thing you want to leave on the ground all day.

 

[custard]

what am I supposed to use?

In green timber? A soup spoon would do the job.

Seriously, for roughing out mortices there's another shortcoming with spade bits, deep holes are bad enough but overlapping deep holes really aren't their strong point. But hey, your project so you choose the tools.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I don't doubt that some spades are better than others, but I must admit that any that happen to come my way get thrown away. Horrible things.

 

[D_W]

Just wanted to add a bit (sorry for the pun) about spade bits and hole quality. I think to be fair only the edges of dog holes need to look presentable and most people will relieve those or actually put a proper roundover or chamfer on them using a router so plenty of scope for cleaning up a slightly ragged edge if it does occur. But as I posted recently in another thread spade bits are perfectly capable of boring cleanly and leaving a clean entry hole:

Some spade/flat bits do need a tweak or two, and most need sharpening, but they can work well if sharp, the shoulders are even and the spur is central.

https://s8.postimg.org/3kwf2jwyd/holes.jpg

I cut all of the holes on my bench with spade bits. I had two square references so that I could look at the bit while drilling and then look from an angle approximately 90 degrees different.

I haven't had an issue with any of the holes.

I like to work by hand as much as the next guy (probably more), but drilling these holes in hardwood with a brace and bit is not something you'll do in half an hour, and you'll be lucky if you can move your arm the next day. A hand auger would be better, but I haven't seen any of those in 3/4th inch (they're probably easy to find, I haven't looked. Augers are common where I grew up for decoration, and most are probably leftovers from guys who built post and beam barns).

Spade bit and a holeshooter made this part of the bench building process very fast. I *hate* a perfect looking bench that is supposed to stay that way. I also would hate to spend that much time building one. I think I totaled 30 hours on mine including installing everything, getting it upright and planing it flat. It felt good to have something that you can just slap together, and it feels just as good to not think of it as a jewel.

 

[ColeyS1]

You can't stop them easily at the right depth, and you can't adjust their direction as you can with a spade bit. Besides, they cost a fortune, and so they're not the sort of thing you want to leave on the ground all day.

Stopping them the right depth is easy. Drill a hole in the end of a piece of 2x2. Slide it over the auger, then mark how much of the auger you need to stick out. Cut off the 2x2 and that's your depth stop.
The adjusting the direction with the spade bit you mention is another reason I'd probably choose a drill bit that's parallel all the way down its length - Like a lip and spur or an auger bit. If the augers gone through, then a straight holdfast should have no problem following the same path. If the spade or forstener bit wondered a little here and there, you might find the holdfast doesn't fit in the hole smoothly.
Obviously in the grand scheme of things none of this really matters. What ever you've got that'll make a hole would probably be fine. I used a 3/4 router cutter for mine. I routed a 3/4 groove on the face of a 9x2, then stuck another 9x2 to it. This leads to the next discussion, why wouldn't you want a square hole instead !!! Lol
Cheers
Coley

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[D_W]

I probably have 30 holes in my bench. I'm not sure. I put a lot in it because I don't like to come back and put more in later, and it's convenient. I think of all of them, I may have had a snug fit for a full length 3/4 hole dog in one.

I wouldn't try a forstner freehand, too much heat. With two visual references, it was really easy to drill very close to perfect holes.

If you want to see a real mess, the underside of my holes are counterbored with a slightly wider bit, after the holes were drilled all the way through. THAT was a mess (but it doesn't have to be neat).

I tried scuffing a hold fast through 4 1/8 inches of ash, but it was fruitless. Counterboring makes them hold rock solid (the narrow part of the holes is only about 2 inches deep now. If I plane 3/4ths of an inch off of my bench top over the rest of my lifetime, it will be a surprise.

Not saying everyone else should do it the way I did it, but I have two dandy sets of augers, and in drilling the waste out of the mortises for the legs, I'd had enough just doing that. It was torturous, and I generally like the physical part.

 

[swagman]

I recently ordered a 3 piece set of Wood Owl Smooth Tri-Cut Auger Bits from the USA. The 3/4" bit and was used yesterday with a Cordless Drill to bore out some Holdfast holes on a new work bench. The exit side of the holes were as neat as the entry side. Nil blow-out. https://www.taytools.com/drilling-borin ... auger-bit/

 

[D_W]

Kind of an expensive way to avoid blowout that nobody will see.

 

[swagman]

Kind of an expensive way to avoid blowout that nobody will see.

David; you have already covered the difference in approach;

Not saying everyone else should do it the way I did it,

I just chose not to accept the standard you work too.

 

[D_W]

I just chose not to accept the standard you work too.

the insinuation there is funny. I choose to apply a higher standard when i'm not drilling holes in a bench. Applying the same standard there, on something out of view is ...well, it's for a pensioner who has no need for discretion or judgement.

 

[ColeyS1]

I guess it'll also depend on the thickness you're drilling. My bench skirt was ex 9 inch so having a wobbly hole in that would have meant a tight holdfast. If your bench is only a couple Inchs thick, a bit of wibble wobble won't be noticed as much.

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[ColeyS1]

DW I don't think swagman was being rude.
Years ago I made a batch of fitted office furniture. Even though one of the cupboards was gonna be permanently fixed to a wall, the client was a little upset that the back of the cupboard didn't look as finished as the front. It's never seen (unless he unscrews it from the wall) but it still niggled him.
Personally I think I'd try and avoid the blowout, perhaps clamping a sacrificial piece of wood underneath first. Each to their own.

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[swagman]

perhaps clamping a sacrificial piece of wood underneath first;

That's considered best practice to eliminate blow-out on the exit side of the hole.

 

[bugbear]

Kind of an expensive way to avoid blowout that nobody will see.

The bits can probably be re-used for other tasks.

BugBear

 

[Cheshirechappie]

There's another way to avoid blow-out when drilling with a hand brace and auger.

Drill until well through the piece, then stop and feel underneath for the nose of the auger poking through. If not felt, drill another turn or two, and feel again. As soon as the nose is felt, withdraw the auger, turn the piece over, insert the nose into the small witness hole, and finish the hole from the other side; the spur will score the grain as it did on the face side and thus prevent break-out.

You only want a tiny witness hole, not a huge gulf, so start feeling for nose early. Large witness holes don't guide the bit very accurately, so misalignment of that part of the hole drilled from the back of the piece can happen. Sometimes that matters; sometimes not so much.

This will work with cordless or electric drills too - just be careful with your trigger finger when feeling for the nose!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

It's quite a good idea to do your holes before you fix the top down for that reason.

 

[D_W]

Kind of an expensive way to avoid blowout that nobody will see.

The bits can probably be re-used for other tasks.

BugBear

Infrequently, though, unless you're doing architectural work (they do look like they'd be mighty useful for that). Most of the other places I'd drill deep holes are covered already by brace and bit or spoon bits.

There's quite a lot of this perfection on unseen parts going on in hobby woodworking. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but hobby woodworking isn't really great sense in itself, so I yield on that. I'd say making planes has been a waste of time, but it's yielded more progression for me in hand eye than anything else.

when I cut the dog holes in my bench, I saw one thread after the other about starting with a router, sinking holes, etc, but at some point, you just want to have the bench and not spend 100+ hours building one. I spent 30 on mine working from rough lumber. I wanted the bench, not holes below that I could show someone at a party and boast about. In several years, this is the first I've even thought about it again.

Friend of mine (who is also a woodworker, but who asks me to make hand-eye-ish stuff for him sometimes, like turned elements, etc) is horrified by the idea that I drilled the holes with nothing more than spoon bits and some visual guides. When I make the bench filthy wiht metal work and then scrape it off to do woodworking and it's still a little dirty, I appreciate the lack of wasted time making it, and the freedom of not treating it like it's a jewelry box or something.

 

[bugbear]

... but hobby woodworking isn't really great sense in itself.

That's a statement which I'll politely call "baffling". What on earth definition of "hobby" do have have in mind to say that?

BugBear

 

[D_W]

... but hobby woodworking isn't really great sense in itself.

That's a statement which I'll politely call "baffling". What on earth definition of "hobby" do have have in mind to say that?

BugBear

Sense in terms of fiscal sense and use of time.

I've never had anyone come to my house and look at anything that I've made and see more value in it than purchased furniture. My wife and I don't have crafty friends (they're doctors, product developers, etc, that part of their brain isn't turned on), so buying antique furniture and refinishing it would make far more sense than making case work, etc.

It does bring up the interesting dynamic, though, which is the forum opinion in general on items that are a waste of time and money. When we're doing this as a hobby, I suppose that's really what we're doing - Wasting time and money - because we like to. I like to waste my time making things on the bench, and not the bench itself. I'm always awe struck when I see a bench several years old that has the top completely sealed with some kind of film finish and looks like it hasn't had work done on it. I have a friend who is like this. You can't really do anything at his bench, you have to get something to put under your work so that you don't mark his bench, etc. and you ultimately give up.