help with identifying a router bit profile please

[Phil Pascoe]

^^^^

 

[Yojevol]

Do you have fence on your router table? If so you can do the job using the recommended roundover cutter but without the guide bearing. Use the cutter height to give you the first quirk and position the fence in relation to the cutter to give the second quirk. You will be able to adjust the size of both quirks to whatever you fancy.
Whilst I agree that the Wealden cutter is very good - I have quite a collection myself, this is one of the most common cutters and much cheaper versions are available and would have enough life to complete this project.
Brian

 

[johnny]

thank you Brian thats very helpful advice . I must confess when I saw the price of the Wealden bit I hoped that I could find a cheaper alternative that will last long enough to complete the job.
I am going to construct a new table with a drop in trimmer router and an adjustable fence . The last fence I made was too crude . There are some great designs on the tube and I can't wait to get started tomorrow. I shall try a few experiments on some scrap oak first to see which will be the most effective method. I'll upload a picture or two when I have some success

 

[Phil Pascoe]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/PSS8X1-Tungste ... 78&sr=8-77
You can probably find it cheaper - is good place to start if you have none. There's a 15 piece 1/2" set that's good as well.

 

[MikeG.]

.......I can see that this will have to be done in 2x stages for each frame edge . Once to form the new quirk and round over and once more with a straight bit to square up the edges and remove the lower part of the profile . Crikey thats hard to describe if you don't get what I am trying to do. :? :?

That's precisely the wrong order. Sort the edges out first, then do the rounding over. The round over bit has a bearing guide which runs along the edge as a reference, so first you get the edge straight and where you want it, then round over from there.

Plane the edges off. It's more of a faff to think of a way of turning your router/ router table into a pseudo-planer than it is to just stick the door in the vice and take a shaving or two.

 

[SBJ]

To clean up the edges you just need a straight bit in the router table set to take a skimming pass from the door, just make sure that the outfeed side of the fence is set inline with the cutter. This is effectively an over hand planer, just on its side.

If you're a novice, this will be much easier and consistent than trying to learn a new hand skill on a finish project.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[Eric The Viking]

Wot Mike said... with the added caveat that router cutters with bearings always follow some sort of edge/template/surface.

That's another reason why planing is far better than using a straight router cutter to re-face the edges. With a straight cutter it is very hard to avoid microscopic wobbles or scallops in the edge, which will then "telegraph" to the roundover+quirk cutter, giving a wobbly result.

No such issue with hand (NOT power!) planing them first.

I must admit I used a Wealden extra-long 1/2" cutter (TXL1412.7M) as a planer on my router table, before I got a proper machine, and it did sort-of work, but the feed speed had to be just right - too slow and it burned, too fast and you got very obvious scalloping. Hand planing leaves a much nicer finish, and it's good for you!

 

[johnny]

.......I can see that this will have to be done in 2x stages for each frame edge . Once to form the new quirk and round over and once more with a straight bit to square up the edges and remove the lower part of the profile . Crikey thats hard to describe if you don't get what I am trying to do. :? :?

That's precisely the wrong order. Sort the edges out first, then do the rounding over. The round over bit has a bearing guide which runs along the edge as a reference, so first you get the edge straight and where you want it, then round over from there.

Plane the edges off. It's more of a faff to think of a way of turning your router/ router table into a pseudo-planer than it is to just stick the door in the vice and take a shaving or two.

Mike thanks for your input but I can see that you have not read the thread through or looked at the pictures . :wink: These are not heavy front doors they are mostly small wall cupboard doors . It would not be practicable to try and use a plane to shave 60 edges of 18mm thick doors accurately. Far easier, quicker and considerably more accurate to run them along a router fence

I believe in a later post I stated that I would be cleaning up the edges first before rounding over which would be the logical order as you say.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

...Mike thanks for your input but I can see that you have not read the thread through or looked at the pictures ...

Yes, he has.
" I'm a complete novice to routing ..." Yes - one reason it would be easier and quicker to plane the edges ........... unless maye you've less experience of a plane than a router.

 

[johnny]

As i said I am a complete novice with woodworking I'm an Architect and Engineer not a carpenter joiner.
I have probably only used a plane a half dozen times in my life and they wern't very successful .

I have used my trimmer router for about a dozen hours now and once it is set up accurately it gives a perfect cut every time which is perfectly vertical and has no digs or tear outs or any other faults like I can get with a plane.

if you had to make a minimum of 120 passes on the edges of 15 or so small cupboard doors that were 17mm thick would you laboriously clamp each door in a vice and hand plane every edge until clean and level with a 90 degree angle to the face on all sides ?

I am very grateful for all the help and advice I have received in answer to my initial question and as I have said a few times now I consider this closed and solved thank you everyone.

 

[toolsntat]

Although only removing a small amount of material you may get a bit of breakout on endgrain of the stiles.
For the 90° "feeding in" to the cut from both sides may help.
Cheers Andy

 

[johnny]

Andy .... why you not tell mi dis yesterday lol

You're right ....I tried routing one of the panels yesterday which was quite successful if time consuming and thats exactly what I got. break out on the end grain of the second style .

I was wondering how to get over this. If it was a straight cut I could probably clamp two pieces of hardwood to either style but even if that worked it would be very time consuming.
Alternatively perhaps I could run all edges once leaving the last 2" then turn them upside down adjust the bit and run them all again ?

I think the only practical solution is to finish each cut before the end of the second style and then sand the edge flush . You lot would probably plane it but I haven't got a decent plane and don't know how to set and use them properly anyway especially on a piece of wood 17mm wide.

 

[Doug71]

If you are using a router table and have the fences slightly off set for trimming the edges you could trim the first 1" or so then flip the door over and work from the other end so the already cut piece goes past the cutter last, that way the piece that would splinter is already cut off.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[johnny]

yes makes perfect sense Doug but unfortunately I have only a short bit atm so would have to adjust height for reverse cut.
I'll order a 1" straight bit and then I'll do it as you suggest.
The biggest problem I have at the moment is the frames are warped and some of the joints have sprung slightly either that or the timber has dried out and shrunk. Either way it means that I am needing to make way more passes than I anticipated ....I'm thinking it would be a lot easier to just stain all the frames slightly darker so they are uniform but it would look very contrasty against the light maple insert panels

 

[MikeG.]

.......I can see that this will have to be done in 2x stages for each frame edge . Once to form the new quirk and round over and once more with a straight bit to square up the edges and remove the lower part of the profile . Crikey thats hard to describe if you don't get what I am trying to do. :? :?

That's precisely the wrong order. Sort the edges out first, then do the rounding over. The round over bit has a bearing guide which runs along the edge as a reference, so first you get the edge straight and where you want it, then round over from there.

Plane the edges off. It's more of a faff to think of a way of turning your router/ router table into a pseudo-planer than it is to just stick the door in the vice and take a shaving or two.

Mike thanks for your input but I can see that you have not read the thread through or looked at the pictures . :wink:

Perhaps my amazement at two pages of responses to such a trivial question dissuaded me from anything other than a skim read of some posts. Maybe, however, you haven't read your own post..the one I quoted. You clearly describe doing the roundover and quirk first, and the edges second.

These are not heavy front doors they are mostly small wall cupboard doors .

Yes, I know, and it makes not a jot of difference.

It would not be practicable to try and use a plane to shave 60 edges of 18mm thick doors accurately.

Yes it would. It's the only sensible approach......as you said yourself on the previous page.

Far easier, quicker and considerably more accurate to run them along a router fence

No. If you have a non-straight edge to start with, it doesn't matter how many times you push it past a router cutter you'll end up with a non-straight edge at the end of the operation. I also gathered, somewhere in this expanse of text, you don't have a router table. You talked about getting one.

I believe in a later post I stated that I would be cleaning up the edges first before rounding over which would be the logical order as you say.

So, given that is in complete contradiction to the post I was responding to, for the sake of clarity my response was helpful to anyone else reading the thread who was left scratching their head.

-

Architect and engineer? That's an unusual combination........and lots of time at Uni. I'm just an architect.

 

[johnny]

[q


Architect and engineer? That's an unusual combination........and lots of time at Uni. I'm just an architect.

it is unusual but then my previous work history before qualifying was rather unusual :wink:

 

[MikeG.]

...seeing as you have decided to make this personal by bringing my qualifications and work experience into question........

No, no. I was being friendly and chatty. I wasn't questioning anything. My humble apologies if that wasn't clear. I don't doubt for a second that you are what you claim to be..........which is indeed an unusual combination. I have a feeling that Renzo Piano might be both. Not sure about that, but it really isn't common. Apologies again.

 

[ColeyS1]

Just because a router cutter has a bearing, theres no reason whatsoever that it cant be used with a fence aswell. Evens out any minor humps and bumps or divots

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[johnny]

...seeing as you have decided to make this personal by bringing my qualifications and work experience into question........

No, no. I was being friendly and chatty. I wasn't questioning anything. My humble apologies if that wasn't clear. I don't doubt for a second that you are what you claim to be..........which is indeed an unusual combination. I have a feeling that Renzo Piano might be both. Not sure about that, but it really isn't common. Apologies again.

thank you for explaining .. forgive me I'm getting defensive in my dotage. :roll:
it is an unusual combination but regrettably I found that I didn't enjoy Architecture as much as I'd hoped I would and subsequently practiced mostly as a general practice Building Surveyor .
I hope that you are still able to do some work from home. Stay safe

 

[Eric The Viking]

Regarding your tearout question:

if you must use a router, do the end grain first, then when you do the long grain you remove the tearout. Also use a backer, sacrificial piece of stock on the exit end when doing the end grain.

I often knock out mounting plates for things like cabin hooks from mahogany-like hardwood or oak, usually rectangular as it's quick, and I've always done it that way - endgrain first, with a backer on the exit end. I sometimes get scorching (cutter speed too fast or feed rate too slow), but usually no tearout once the piece is finished.