Help Needed Please! Electric Machine Fault.

[AES]

Since atm is a Swiss company perhaps they can supply a circuit, well at least a connection diagram. It's worth a try.
Martin

Thanks. Good idea. I'll try them tomorrow and let you all know.

 

[AES]

PCB Update:

I contacted the PCB manufacturer, ATM, in Switzerland today. They say they're not permitted to release a circuit diagram/schematic for the PCB, I must instead contact "the manufacturer" of the machine.

Knowing a little of the mixed history of these machines, and having no idea who the "real" manufacturer is (in Taiwan) I contacted Scies Miniatures SA, also in Switzerland. These are the people who make Pegas scroll saw blades, and, since General International went bankrupt in 2018, Scies also "sells/distributes" the Excalibur scroll saws under their own brand name (Pegas). I suspect it is Scies who are responsible for having this new PCB designed and made by ATM.

Pegas have said they will send me a circuit diagram for the PCB (I gave them all the details from the PCB).

So I guess that my new PCB has travelled from ATM to Scies (in Switzerland); then to Taiwan (where the machine is made - still I think); from Taiwan to Dictum in Germany; then from Germany to me!

It remains to be seen IF I get the info or not. Up to now, Scies has always refused to deal direct with the public - for example telling me that to buy their scroll saw blades I must buy from one of their dealers/distributors.

It remains to be seen IF Scies sends me a circuit diagram or not!

I'll keep you advised.

 

[Sideways]

Just because ATM is etched in the board doesn't mean they made it. Frankly more probable they designed it and it was still assembled for them in Taiwan. This is commonplace.
It doesn't matter. All you need is the pinout and the spec.

Actually, studying the photo, you have a green pcb with a beige daughter board attached.
All the switch mode power is done on the daughter board, that will be a bought in assembly. Mains in on the white connector next to the orange "brick" on the daughter board. AC so unpolarised. DC off the other end of the daughter board where a pair of thicker wires connect down to the green board.
That DC supply will be taken from the two 1/4" blade connectors on the left hand edge of the green pcb to supply the motor.
Two white connectors on green board allow for a power on LED and the connection ofca foot pedal.
I've heard a foot pedal is a must for this type of saw.
The black 4 or 5 pin connector in the middle of the board is the curiousity.
Maybe a test point. Maybe for connection of a remote speed control potentiometer.

It makes sense to buy in the SMPSU module like this.

You don't need the full schematic - their intellectual property - just the connections to the board.

 

[AES]

Yep, in it's latest incarnation (with the Pegas name on it anyway) the machine does come with an on/off foot switch. Mine didn't (8 years ago) so I added one separately with all connections external.

I understand what you're saying about intellectual property Sideways. The problem I now have is that at least I could talk to ATM this morning in German (they're near Luzern). But Pegas is in the French part of Switzerland, and as a rule they really dislike/seem unable to speak either German OR English.

I THINK I got the (French-speaking) lady on the phone this morning to understand me, but cannot be certain - the little French I can manage cannot differentiate between "Circuit Diagram"/"Circuit Schematic" (same word in German I THINK) and the "connections to the board" or "pinouts" terminology that you mention.

Anyway it's a moot point for now because I'll be away from my PC for the whole of next week, so everything's on the back burner for now.

Wish I know more about electronics". Thanks for your comments anyway.

Cheers

 

[AES]

Yep, in it's latest incarnation (with the Pegas name on it anyway) the machine does come with an on/off foot switch. Mine didn't (8 years ago) so I added one separately with all connections external.

I understand what you're saying about intellectual property Sideways. The problem I now have is that at least I could talk to ATM this morning in German (they're near Luzern). But Pegas is in the French part of Switzerland, and as a rule they really dislike/seem unable to speak either German OR English.

I THINK I got the (French-speaking) lady on the phone this morning to understand me, but cannot be certain - the little French I can manage cannot differentiate between "Circuit Diagram"/"Circuit Schematic" (same word in German I THINK) and the "connections to the board" or "pinouts" terminology that you mention.

Anyway it's a moot point for now because I'll be away from my PC for the whole of next week, so everything's on the back burner for now.

Wish I know more about electronics". Thanks for your comments anyway.

Cheers

I spoke too soon! I've had an reply E-mail from Scies (in mixed Eng & Fr) telling me they're sending me a new PCB "asap". I THINK I've cleared that bit up now (and I did NOT say "I've already got a new PCB you silly so-and-so's" !!!!) so I now also have a 7 page .pdf describing how to change from the old type PCB to the new type (the green one which I showed yesterday). Unfortunately, it's all in French, but the photos are pretty good, so I SHOULD be able to manage on my own now.

More info when I return home, 22nd Nov.

 

[AES]

Just FYI Sideways, & NOT trying to be "smart", but when you wrote that perhaps ATM didn't make the PCB, when I spoke to them this morning (in German thank goodness) they confirmed they did actually "make" it. But of course that doesn't mean that having designed it, they didn't then ship it out to Asia somewhere for the actual making processes. AND we didn't discuss at all that "daughter board" (??) standing above the main PCB on 4 plastic stand-offs. No idea where that comes from.

Anyway, thanks for your interest - AND to all the rest of you too.

I don't know if this updating came about as a result of the GI bankruptcy in 2018/the "new GI" NOT making scroll saws at all, but whatever, it seems that electronically, matters ARE indeed progressing on these saws.

Cheers all

 

[Matt_0222]

I spoke too soon! I've had an reply E-mail from Scies (in mixed Eng & Fr) telling me they're sending me a new PCB "asap". I THINK I've cleared that bit up now (and I did NOT say "I've already got a new PCB you silly so-and-so's" !!!!) so I now also have a 7 page .pdf describing how to change from the old type PCB to the new type (the green one which I showed yesterday). Unfortunately, it's all in French, but the photos are pretty good, so I SHOULD be able to manage on my own now.

More info when I return home, 22nd Nov.

If you download the Google translate app for your phone, you’ll be able to get a direct translation overlaid on the page back to English or German. You can then save or screenshot this and use this as the version you work from.

 

[AES]

I'll try that thanks.

 

[ajs]

Comparison with my Diamond which depending on your viewpoint is either trivally simple or highly integrated:
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/speed-control-switch.145228/

 

[Sideways]

I think the key difference must be that the diamond is a mains voltage motor as the all in one triac speed control chip can be turned up to supply full, unrectified ac mains.

 

[AES]

I think the key difference must be that the diamond is a mains voltage motor as the all in one triac speed control chip can be turned up to supply full, unrectified ac mains.

Final Update to this L O N G thread!

First off, I had to visit UK recently for family reasons. While away I received the "final" bill for the above purchase of the new PCB. The courier used by Dictum, DHL, charged an additional CHF 10.00 (about £9.50 at present ER) for "admin" (i.e. clearing my goods through Swiss Customs). There were NIL additional Import Duties, just the above CHF 10. That means that the total cost of the new PCB (plus a couple of spare fuses) was CHF 156.51 (see P 2 of this thread for the breakdown). That's about £140-odd at present exchange rates. In comparison with the new price of this machine (I paid approx € 700 8 years ago, and list is now about € 1,000) the repair was obviously worth it financially, even if not exactly hassle-free.

In addition I received a complete "electronics upgrade kit" (new, completely different design/size/shape PCB and several other bits & pieces) which I did not order. When I contacted Dictum to ask about this additional stuff they told me to just keep the stuff or throw it away. That's what I did.

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Checking back I see that I've been a member of this Forum since Feb 2011. Time flies!

During that time I feel that I've got to know several members very well indeed through their various posts, not least from the considerable help I've had over the years - this thread by no means the only example.

But until my recent UK trip I had never met any Forum member in person. But in view of his considerable experience and knowledge in electronic design and manufacture, during this trip I did take the opportunity to meet a Forum member in person. Not only was I warmly welcomed but was also offered a lot of valuable advice about the advisability (or not) plus the likely costs of repairing my old PCB. And important for me, we also discussed the advisability (or not) of modifying my machine to take the above-mentioned new-type PCB.

For reasons very logically explained, I decided NOT to upgrade my machine, leaving it original, as bought 8+ years ago. After all, if after pretty intensive use the MTBF of the old PCB is every 8 years, and as I'm now 78, I suspect that any further failure is unlikely to be much bother to me! And not fitting the new PCB means no mods for me to do!

So a VERY valuable discussion from someone who obviously knows his electronic onions. Many thanks Martin (Harry)!

As a result of all that, I have now fitted the "new-old" PCB and I'm pleased to report my machine is now running perfectly.

IF I do decide to sell the machine as part of my house move (I haven't finally decided yet, despite this latest problem, my Excalibur really IS a lovely machine in so many respects), then the new buyer will not only get a working "as-built" machine but also a FOC upgrade kit if he/she decided to upgrade at some point in the future.

I close by once again thank all Forum members who have chipped in with advice on this subject - electronically I really WAS out of my depth! And of course special thanks to Martin.

Cheers