Hello - Newbie from Scotland

[PMP]

Hi

You appear to be trying to hollow parallel grain timber with a swept back gouge which isn't the best tool for the job and difficult to do. For small work a 45 degree fingernail grind on a spindle gouge is much better.

Hi, thanks for the tip.

I didnt make clear my earlier attempts at it were with my small fingernail 3/8" spindle gouge, that caught on the tip of the tool as the wall curved in, the bowl gouge was to see if that was the more appropriate tool, however it seemed i was on the correct path to start with, just had bad tool use that caused the first catch.

At least i saw where the issue there was.

I also found a local timber merchant who said they can provide stuff but if its smaller scale stuff, there is a local joiner carpenter nearby.

I had a walk round and asked if they sold stuff etc, the guy took me into workshop and said have a pick of what i fancy, i got 3 12" by about 8" wide and 2.5" deep planks of Beech, Iroko and Oak for a fiver!

 

[Trevanion]

I had a walk round and asked if they sold stuff etc, the guy took me into workshop and said have a pick of what i fancy, i got 3 12" by about 8" wide and 2.5" deep planks of Beech, Iroko and Oak for a fiver!

Nice haul! I should've mentioned that joiners tend to have a lot of sizeable offcuts that aren't really useful for anything when it comes to the usual stuff in the joinery workshop.

Make sure you wear a good mask when you're working with Iroko (and all timbers really!). Iroko is a really irritant wood and can have different effects on different people, It's really harsh on the lungs and it gets worse the more you're exposed to it since it's a sensitizer. I know someone who refused to work with it because it gave him quite nasty rashes from the Iroko dust, but not from any other wood.

 

[PMP]

Turned a small cylinder of beech,

20190924_155349 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

just being very slow and methodical, probably too careful tbh as was hardly removing any material but rather safe than sorry.

I cut a tenon for the cylinder to put it in the chuck jaws, worked fine until i was trying to do some hollowing again, I used the 3/8" spindle gauge as an auger as i had seen on a good you tube video (guys name escapes me just now) and that worked well, just worked slowly. However when i tried to take material away starting from the outer edge of that hole moving towards the outside edge of the cylinder the tool seemed to be almost taking a powder off rather than shavings and when i applied a tiny bit more pressure it just grabbed and the wood almost came out of the chuck.

20190924_154810 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

I was working at about 1/2 of full revs of the machine (probably about 1000-1200rpm), think its because my chuck jaws dont grab the flat face of the cylinder, more the corners of each jaw grab, i dont know if its because they are poorly made or need less material circumference. shouldnt be as the chuck set was over £130 new.

The spindle gouge seems sharp and cuts wood easily when you slide the cutting edge across some wood, it just seems to skate on the beech or bits of cut wood get between the turning wood and the sharp edge so doesnt cut for a second, dont know if i am too shallow after riding the bevel and starting to get a shaving.

20190924_160605 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

Early days, just hard to find a rhythm.

 

[Dalboy]

Your tenon needs to be smaller so that when the jaws grip it the form as near a circle as possible, this means that the whole of the jaw is gripping the tenon and not just the corners don't make it too small or the centre of the jaws will be the only part holding or they will not hold at all. Also, the wall of the tenon needs to be up against the jaws so be careful that you do not make too larger tenon as it needs to sit right inside the jaws

Look at this VIDEO

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You should be cutting on the pull out of the hole - that's the reason for putting it there. The side of the gouge (fingernail grind) should cut the long grain of the wood from a little way inside the hole, just as if you were planing with the grain. Once you have opened up the hole a little it becomes easier and you can go deeper into the hole. If you work across the end grain with the tip of the gouge it will snatch.

 

[PMP]

Thanks for the very informative tips and advice. helps a lot .

that video on chucks was nice and clear.

 

[Mark Hancock]

20190924_154810 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

I was working at about 1/2 of full revs of the machine (probably about 1000-1200rpm), think its because my chuck jaws dont grab the flat face of the cylinder, more the corners of each jaw grab, i dont know if its because they are poorly made or need less material circumference. shouldnt be as the chuck set was over £130 new.

The spindle gouge seems sharp and cuts wood easily when you slide the cutting edge across some wood, it just seems to skate on the beech or bits of cut wood get between the turning wood and the sharp edge so doesnt cut for a second, dont know if i am too shallow after riding the bevel and starting to get a shaving.

20190924_160605 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

Early days, just hard to find a rhythm.

The first picture shows a continental style gouge which is not designed for what you attempted to do hence the catch.

The second picture shows a round bar spindle gouge which appears to be as supplied by the tool manufacturer. I'd suggest it needs re-profiling to make it more like a fingernail grind and easier to use.

 

[PMP]

Sorry i didnt clarify, its the same tool in both pics, ill look into re profiling the spindle gouge, not sure if my jig allows for it.

 

[Dalboy]

Just for interest have a look at all these VIDEOS some very good information in them

 

[CHJ]

Sorry i didnt clarify, its the same tool in both pics, ill look into re profiling the spindle gouge, not sure if my jig allows for it.

The Jigs primarily only set the nose angle, how much material you remove from the side wings of the gouge are down to you and how long you dwell in any one area of the tool.

If you spend longer grinding the sides before swinging over the nose centre the wings will lower down the flute sides.
Just be aware not to reduce the nose/point dwell time too much else the tool will become too pointed.

 

[PMP]

Got on a bit better today, i ground my 3/8" spindle to have a more fingernail profile, dont know angle off top of head but i think about 40 or 38'.

20190925_113855 by Richard Rose, on Flickr


20190925_113915 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

hollowed out the small test piece and found that coming from the centre out wasnt very good, tool just seemed to give off dust and make a honing noise on the wood. I tried the different technique of pushing the tool in to the centre, riding the bevel and got much better results until i got to a point where a ridge formed and the tool couldn't get to an angle to remove the ridge. so i went back to centre to edge technique. All a bit rough and ready but worked in the end.

20190925_114639 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

20190925_122605 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

I then just played about making beads and coves for practice, then tried removing material of the piece in a way to create a stem for the "goblet".

I found it was working okay but i get the feeling the tool isnt cutting very well, even though i have what feels like a sharp edge on the tool, any more grinding the edge and it will just be removing material and past the point of having an edge??

I also feel like the tool rest isnt placed correctly, i keep it near the work and slightly below the centre line so the tool cuts on the centre, but i feel like i dont have control of the tool, like i have to keep a decent finger grasp on the metal part of the tool, where most places i read\videos say you shouldnt have to do this.

Finish on the turned surface is also quite 'fuzzy' when a lot of stuff i see online, a sharp tool should be giving a very smooth finish.

20190925_113829 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

Also not 100% on my lathe speed. The thing has lowest speed of 900rpm, and max of a bit over 3k. i tend to have it set about midway so 1200-1600 rpm, but not sure if thats too fast or too slow??

Sorry for the volume of questions, i just dont want to be getting into bad habits.

 

[CHJ]

Watch those accessory jaws, they seem to be rather a long way out to me, make sure at least two, better still 3-4 teeth are engaged in the scroll.
One of those jaws at 2000 rpm coming out can be lethal.

Trying to end grain hollow with that amount of wood overhang from the chuck without a centre steady support is really not something I would encourage for a beginner.
The wood is going to vibrate and flex and even an experienced turner is going to have to be very circumspect about tool choice and presentation taking careful note of the feedback they are getting if they are to avoid a catch or other mistake.

Try hollowing with just 50-75 mm overhang from the chuck.

 

[PMP]

Thanks for the advice. I redid the tenon before starting today and the chuck was much more closed and had much better grip . the last pic in the above post was before I redid the demon cut .

By overhang from the chuck. do you mean the length of the piece on the lathe? I.e. just work on shorter pieces for following practice?

 

[Mark Hancock]

Yes as Chas says reduce the length of the wood in the chuck.
Present the gouge with the flute pointing at around 45 degrees, place in the hole, cut on the leading edge (left of centre of the flute) and pull (rather than push) the cutting edge back towards you arcing out to the edge.

 

[PMP]

Finished my first turned item that wasn't a hacking attempt at an xmas tree

Got a better feel for the tiny movement of the tool needed for smoother cuts and sharpened my round scraper and found it gave nice results.

Parting at the end went a bit off, tool might have just gone off proper sharp and trying to make a concave base didnt work right and more sort of polished the base. but at least its flat and sits upright without wobbling.

20190925_194939 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

 

[PMP]

I finally found a piece of steel box section to fit in the jig for my sharpening set (neded a longer bit for the angle attachment), and could i find anywhere that had it, fabricators, scrap yards, joiners etc, went to about 10 places, all no joy, then went back to B&Q and lo and behold, the exact size and almost exact length, £7!

20190926_145104 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

So set about resetting my jig and making sure it was level (wasnt 100% before) and ground my tools that work better on the jig rather than freehand on the level platform. What a difference, my skew chisel and round scraper are so much better.

So i dug out a oak bannister rail blank i had for making some basic plinths for some old competition work, and cut it to size to practice, parting tool work and basic techniques.

Even rounding off the piece was almost perfectly smooth after a couple of light passes with the skew. I then just did cuts, shapes etc, aiming to be neat and sharp, as a tester for starting to turn display plinths for selling\ to make moulds from.

20190926_145109 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

20190926_150249 by Richard Rose, on Flickr


I then got some finishing oil (just cuprinol stuff in B&Q), though found on my hunt for a bit of bar, a local firm that has a decent turning\woodwork section, so they have better selection of sanding sealer, finishing abrasive liquids etc.

20190926_155042 by Richard Rose, on Flickr


I also saw in the shop a 4 jaw scroll chuck, thats slightly bigger than mine (not much) but looks much better quality and strength. I think it fits my lathe as it has the smaller thread attachment (i.e. thinner thread, finer pitch, than the larger normal thread (i need an adaptor for the one i currently have, even though its the chuck to go with the lathe apparently lol.

Might look at this as an upgrade in the future.

20190926_125055 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

 

[Simon_M]

Also not 100% on my lathe speed.

Mark Baker has an excellent book/DVD with graphs of speed for both spindle and face plate turning. His guide is RPM x inch (diameter) = 6000 or RPM x inch (diameter) = 9000. Some examples would be 1000 rpm = 6000/6" to 1500 rpm = 9000/6". His "formula" is not exact, but is based upon achieving the right "linear" cutting speed, so as the diameter increases, so does the need to reduce the RPM to maintain the same cutting speed.

However this is only a guide (or reminder) so if it's not supported by the tailstock, or the workpiece is not perfectly balanced, or it's further from the headstock, then it should be reduced further.

There is no shame in using even lower speeds and with increasing speed and workpiece size comes also increased risks. Sanding can be at a reduced speed and polishing at an even lower speed.

 

[CHJ]

PMP; A 'Happy', for want of any better description, lathe speed for any particular piece or tool used has many variables and I think only practise and experience leads to a FEEL for some sort of optimum.

If in doubt start off slower, if all is smooth and feels secure then speed up, be prepared to use tailstock support during bowl turning, especially on initial material removal to increase the rigidity and reduce vibration.

Speeding up can be a great advantage in reducing tool vibration by changing its frequency especially hand induced bounce, the latter can easily occur if you are applying too much bevel pressure* and commonly results in spiral ridges which compound in depth on every pass, (shear scraping is the easiest way to remove this)
*Harder spots such as end grain or knots are a primary trigger for this, blunt tooling also compounds the tool reaction.

Going back to the 'Happy' speed, be prepared to alter this considerably for any given diameter, cutting smoothness and tool reaction can vary considerabley dependant on wood texture.

There is a Speed Guide in PDF format that I put together on my web site, based on what is considered as an optimum cutting speed for most timbers, with some additional information in an attempt give an appreciation of the risk factors involved.

There's no way I'm ever going to run a 1" spindle at 6000 RPM and approach it with a hand tool & am very circumspect about 2" at 3000RPM.

 

[Simon_M]

PMPThere's no way I'm ever going to run a 1" spindle at 6000 RPM and approach it with a hand tool & am very circumspect about 2" at 3000RPM.

Absolutely agree - the PDF uses the same "basic" formula and so the quoted speed for small diameter workpieces (1" x 6000 rpm) seem much too high especially as there's often a 4" chuck spinning nearby! At my most recent club night, I saw a demo with a sharp gouge held with one hand, making a reasonable and effortless supported cut, as the work piece was rotated slowly with the other hand - with "regular" shavings produced and a reminder, that like an ordinary plane (similar task) doesn't need to travel at high speeds either.

 

[Hendo85]

Hi all. I'm new to woodturning and live in keith, moray. Did the guy that started this convo in 2016 find a woodturning club? If not can you get touch and I could maybe shadow you for a bit. thanks in advance