hegner scroll saws

[aramco]

hi again can someone please explain to me what is so special about a 20+year old hegner machine that costs almost as much as a brand new one, ok it is the cheapest in the range but still a hegner then there is the cost of refurbishment and also the chance that it will not work when one gets it home, is it me or am I really missing something here.

John


pain is the best attention getter

 

[AES]

The general consensus here (including many FAR more experienced than me) is that Hegners are undoubtedly VERY nice machines indeed - some say Rolls-Royce in terms of build quality, and as a result, are VERY reliable.

BUT many also agree with what I found looking at the market in detail 3 years ago now:

1. The Hegner machines themselves are now VASTLY over-priced;

2. Ditto all spare parts;

3. By today's standards they're somewhat old-fashioned - e.g. no tilting head like Excalibur and the new Jet, just a tilting table (my experience has been that once you've had a tilting head you'll NEVER go back to a tilting table - AND you'll use the tilt much more than you think you will).

OTOH, the high initial price of Hegners is usually reflected in their SH prices.

Especially in the education market Hegner seem to have captured the market and seem not to worry about their high prices.

I think that's one reason why Axminster Tools have apparently been very successful with their own-badge version of one of the Hegner saw range.

Just my take

 

[aramco]

thanks for that you have just made my mind up I think I will go for and axminster but I will look at the jet as I have not even thought about them.

cheers

John


Pain is the best attention getter

 

[AES]

OK John, I'm really NOT trying to lead you in any specific direction, just telling what my own experience was 3 years ago. I bought the Excalibur 21 BTW, but at that time the somewhat cheaper Axi version of that machine wasn't available.

I posted here at length about my purchase, under the heading "Biting the bullet" - let me know if you want a link and I'll dig it out.

 

[Cordy]

Bought my 2002 small Hegner variable speed 3 years ago

The maximum cut is about 37 mm but not often do I tackle anything so thick
It cuts and runs today just as good as the day I brought it back from Swindon LOOK
That's why the Hegner brand is respected

Good quality machine; just like my Mercedes car which I bought new in 1999

Look up Scrimper for Hegner improvement suggestions

 

[AES]

I don't disagree with any of that cordy, and there's no doubt that Hegner machines are indeed VERY well made.

All I'm saying is that these days you can get "more bang for your buck". 3 years ago I had the chance to try, hands on, both a comparable Hegner and an Excalibur side by side. As I wrote in my post then, there was no doubt in my mind that the Hegner definitely felt "better built" than the Excali, but the Excali I eventually chose was almost as well built I felt (without stripping both down impossible to be sure of course).

The reason I chose the Excali in the end was not only the tilting head (as opposed to the Hegner's tilting table) but was also the wider range of speeds, the capability to take other blades (e.g. junior hack saw blades and bits of broken band saw blade), and also the greater capacity - and all this at a lower price than the comparable Hegner!

I'm NOT trying to justify my own buying decision, simply pointing out that today, Hegner have, I guess, been lazy enough and/or arrogant enough to allow the competition to creep up from behind and overtake them in terms of "price to spec ratio". This often seems to happen with market leaders in all sorts of areas.

Fact is that both the Excali (and now the Axi version, which wasn't around when I bought my machine) and now the new Jet (which I haven't seen BTW) all offer a better "paper spec" at a lower price than Hegner. I also "feel" that in practice, my Excali has turned out to be just as good quality as the Hegner - 3 years after my Excali purchase I haven't had one moment of trouble.

Add to that not only the higher price of the machine but also the silly prices for Hegner spares and IMO anyway, excellent though they undoubtedly are, Hegner have got past their sell by date - as said, in terms of "spec to price ratio" anyway.

 

[whatknot]

I have only owned one Hegner, it was a single speed and vibrated way more than I expected or could put up with so sold it on

I have an AWFS18 Axminster (Hegner clone) a wonderful machine, and does all I need of a scroll saw

Virtually vibration free

 

[aramco]

seems as if the axminster is coming out on top must admit it is between the 21 inch and 16 inch trade looks to be winning for me.

John


pain is the best attention getter

 

[scrimper]

Have to agree with much of what AES says in post number 2.

Hegner are very expensive and spares costs are horrendous. However on the plus side they are 'bullet' proof machines that rarely go wrong and are an absolute delight to use. I bought my Hegner in 1999 and even now get a 'kick' every time I use it.

The machines themselves are virtually vibration free will run continuously all day if required using the reliability of it's induction type motor.
Changing the blade is so simple using the quick release tension lever and quick blade clamp that you can honestly do it with your eyes closed and within a few seconds, (essential if you do a lot of internal cutting).

I would have no hesitation whatsoever in highly recommending them.

However as others say Axminster offer a machine that is a virtual clone of the Hegner at a significantly lower cost and although personally I have no experience of them others in the forum do have and give very good reports on them.

 

[aramco]

hi again I have started to make my new scroll saw bench - out of old steel - and a thought occurred to me, I hope I have cut it long enough to accept a Axminster trade 21 ???, the bench will measure 30 inches x 22 if it is not I will have to weld a bit on when the time comes , the legs are 50 mm square steel 31 inches high, and the long angle iron is 38 mm x 38 mm and the cross piece is 25 mm x 25 mm, the other bits will be 3 mm x 25 mm steel bar , and I will put some cross pieces of angle for the top to fit on , these will also allow me to cut some 3 mm sheet of galvanized I have laying around will probably put 3 pieces one on top of the other and fasten onto the cross members with tek screws these are fantastic for those who cannot weld .Hopefully this will eliminate as much vibrations as possible.There will be foot rests fastened to the side and I may put a shelf in as well just for good measure to put all my steel plates etc on to get them out of the way, I will also cut squares out of the cow mats and it will sit on the concrete floor. If I have missed anything please let me know. OH before I forget what is the distance between the front and rear holding down bolt holes this is for cross braces so they match up.

John


pain is the best attention getter

 

[AES]

Hullo John. Here are the dimensions of my Exc 21. Two caveats:

1. Mine is the "genuine" machine, not the Axi version, so I suppose it's POSSIBLE (but highly unlikely) that the Axi version is different;

2. Mine is bolted to a table with dome head nuts above the bolt holes so the following hole spacings are NOT dead on (I guess plus/minus 1 mm):.

A. Distance between bolt hole centres front to rear = 38.5 mm.

B. Distance between bolt hole centres side to side = 34.3 mm.

C. Overall width of machine = 38 mm.

D. Overall length of machine = 81 mm.

Note also that it's quite possible to have an overhang front & rear. You could easily have 22mm overhang at the back and 15 mm at the front.

Also, the Exc is noted for being low/free of vibration, but I would allow for a good thickness of WOOD for the top of the table, say at least half inch ply, ideally more.

HTH

 

[AES]

John, I just had another thought (I'm a bit slow this morning, sorry)!

If the Axi machine is like the original Exc machine, and if you can wait until yours arrives, it comes bolted through the mounting holes onto a decent piece of ply. You could use that for the top of your table, or at least for a template (which is what I did).

Also, remembering your muscle/nerve ache problems, I'd strongly recommend you build some height and even angle adjustment into your table, so that once you get it set up you can fine tune the height and even a slight slope to suit your particular situation. I fiddled for some time with mine before settling on it's permanent position - and I sit on a height and slope adjustable typist's chair because of my own problems.

Again, HTH

 

[whatknot]

Thats a small scroll saw AES ;-)

I suspect your mm is cm ?

Hullo John. Here are the dimensions of my Exc 21. Two caveats:

1. Mine is the "genuine" machine, not the Axi version, so I suppose it's POSSIBLE (but highly unlikely) that the Axi version is different;

2. Mine is bolted to a table with dome head nuts above the bolt holes so the following hole spacings are NOT dead on (I guess plus/minus 1 mm):.

A. Distance between bolt hole centres front to rear = 38.5 mm.

B. Distance between bolt hole centres side to side = 34.3 mm.

C. Overall width of machine = 38 mm.

D. Overall length of machine = 81 mm.

Note also that it's quite possible to have an overhang front & rear. You could easily have 22mm overhang at the back and 15 mm at the front.

Also, the Exc is noted for being low/free of vibration, but I would allow for a good thickness of WOOD for the top of the table, say at least half inch ply, ideally more.

HTH

 

[whatknot]

If not aware the brochure and manual for the Axi 21 are available on the Axminster site for download

The manual gives the sizes etc

 

[AES]

Soreeeeee! I did say I was SLOW this morning!

Yup, for mm read CM!!!!!!!!! (I always have probs with mm & cm anyway, but no excuse).

It also never occurred to me to look in my Manual. I'll check now and if it's there I'll scan it and post it for you later on today (just off to the hospital now for my exercises).

 

[AES]

Just did a quick check John, NO installation diagram/dimensions in my Manual.

Could very well be that the Axi version does have it, I dunno

 

[whatknot]

I don't think it was a problem to be fair and fairly obvious what it should be

As to the manual, really there is no need to scan it as its there on Axminsters site for all to download for free

I can complain about many things re "improvements" or "advancements" in technology, but the ability to download most manuals for machines & equipment these days is a great thing, to be able to check the manual before purchase is extremely useful

 

[aramco]

hi finished the scroll saw table tonight and being lazy - laziness is nothing unless it is well carried out - I dropped the old 2 inch thick work top back on it off the old table, vibs where still there but the top was not fastened down, again laziness , so for quick and I wanted my tea 9 pm , I put 2x4 inch G clamps and screwed them down tight vibs almost gone .will finish fastening the machine down tomorrow hopefully ,

I am going to angle the saw about 10 degrees again,I set it up like that when I first got it, then for some unknown reason I made it level maybe along with the vibs this started my pins and needles problem got get it finished tomorrow as I have had an order for one of the clocks I did.

thanks for the measurements I will check them out tomorrow anit going back out now.

tea time talk to you all later.

John


pain is the best attention getter.

 

[aramco]

Got the machine fastened to the bench top and there is virtually no vibs , worked on it for 3 hours doing the sue may clock pattern, and it was a pleasure to use will still get an axminster but there is now no rush except having loosen and tighten the tension screw on the back of it when doing plaques, but will just have to grin and bear it and intermix intarsia so it keeps things interesting.

John


pain is the best attention getter

 

[AES]

OK mate. Glad it's all working out OK for you. Good luck (and with the exercises)!