Hand cut dovetails in sapele

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I tried a scalpel a few times -- it always followed the grain too badly whether on end grain (tails first) or long grain (pins first). Ditto Xacto knives EXCEPT for their thick blades though I can't recall the model number of these blades at the moment.

That's the same thing that occurred for me when I tried using one of the expensive very delicate marking knives. I fought its flexible blade too much.

Much prefer a cheaper and heavier knife when a double bevel chip carving knife (or any cheap pocket knife with a sheepsfoot blade) doesn't have room to work.

This is clearly where our differing experience is a deciding factor. I find that spring in a thin marking knife aids in keeping the back of the blade flush against the socket wall. It is otherwise difficult to mark very narrow dovetails accurately in confined spaces.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Jacob]

Not very well spaced Derek. Did you have an accident with the dividers? Even free hand spacing is tidier than that. :lol:

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Artistic Jacob ... artistic! :lol:

That was from from my Krenov phase

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[woodbrains]

Not very well spaced Derek. Did you have an accident with the dividers? Even free hand spacing is tidier than that. :lol:

Hello,

Looks OK to me......there is a good reason for spacing dovetails so there are more towards the edges. I do it like that myself. If a joint is going to let go, it is going to do it at the edges, so put more joints there, to give more glue area. It also gives the work a bit of visual tension and helps with the hand crafted look of the thing. We do not have to regiment everything.

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

...helps with the hand crafted look of the thing. ...

Helps with the dedicated follower of fashion look of the thing!

 

[D_W]

...helps with the hand crafted look of the thing. ...

Helps with the dedicated follower of fashion look of the thing!

I'd agree. I see intentionally different sized dovetails, but no visual tension or anything like that.

(not that there's anything wrong with it, I just don't think there's any virtue in it, either. Virtuous dovetails are those that only show up when some article of furniture is open (or in the case of casework where there are no drawers or joints not covered by mouldings - not at all).

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Mike is correct - there is a good reason to place the dovetails closer to the outside. Krenov frequently did so, and he wrote about the technique. His argument was that the ends of the drawer are under greater stress than the centre.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[D_W]

I've never had a dovetail joint break. My parents have scads of old hand dovetailed furniture, because it's inexpensive where I came from. Only one of the pieces with dovetails is broken, and I have no idea how - the tails literally broke off in the sockets - as in they broke right where the line is struck across them.

I'm sure there's a story there, but I don't know what it is.

(aesthetically, I do think it looks nicer if they're close to the edge. I have, personally, had drawers that failed - they were made by other people, but in cabinets in my house. They were either pinned, or made on modern machinery with some sort of attempt at a lock joint. Or, they are dovetailed, but held in the furniture with plastic pieces screwed into the bottom (this is common with local makers attempting to make something hat has a hint of sturdiness in it, but when you take it out, you find out that it's full of things that will break down the road, leaving you to make an extensive repair when the plastic bits are impossible to find).

At any rate, I'm poo pooing for explanations that go beyond aesthetics - our hobby is full of them. Hypothetical things, but that are fairly low occurrence.

 

[G S Haydon]

For normal domestic furniture there is no need for the spacing shown in Derek's photo, making an argument that there should be is groundless. But for a personal project I think they are quite nice, understated, not in your face. A bit of subtle difference. Keep doing it Derek!

 

[woodbrains]

...helps with the hand crafted look of the thing. ...

Helps with the dedicated follower of fashion look of the thing!

I'd agree. I see intentionally different sized dovetails, but no visual tension or anything like that.

(not that there's anything wrong with it, I just don't think there's any virtue in it, either. Virtuous dovetails are those that only show up when some article of furniture is open (or in the case of casework where there are no drawers or joints not covered by mouldings - not at all).

Hello,

Keep making planes from rectangular baulks of wood and leave the aesthetics to people who actually make furniture!

Mike.

And yes, aesthetics is spelled like this, I speak English correctly too.

 

[G S Haydon]

Ah the language Stazi! Thank heavens for that!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBOCHPCYnDw Written to any papers recently :lol:
Watch it to the end, he makes a great point.

Back to the planing. It's free to join and you can watch him join a panel. Might be reassuring to those worrying about perfect fluffy shavings.

https://woodworkingmasterclasses.com/20 ... terclasses

David is a smooth mover https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nka94EiVkmM

 

[Jacob]

Mike is correct - there is a good reason to place the dovetails closer to the outside. Krenov frequently did so, and he wrote about the technique. His argument was that the ends of the drawer are under greater stress than the centre.

Regards from Perth

Derek

It's nonsense. Krenov was an amateur, he said so himself, over and over again. I think he was embarrassed by the guru status thrust upon him. Didn't stop him from idly making up all sorts of woodworking theories nor a lot of lazy acolytes from soaking them up!

PS I always sense that whenever anybody uses the word 'correct' in woodwork chats they are talking nonsense. It's a fairly safe rule of thumb.

 

[D_W]

[Quote ]

I'd agree. I see intentionally different sized dovetails, but no visual tension or anything like that.

(not that there's anything wrong with it, I just don't think there's any virtue in it, either. Virtuous dovetails are those that only show up when some article of furniture is open (or in the case of casework where there are no drawers or joints not covered by mouldings - not at all).[/quote]

Hello,

Keep making planes from rectangular baulks of wood and leave the aesthetics to people who actually make furniture!

Mike.

And yes, aesthetics is spelled like this, I speak English correctly too.[/quote]

I've got a pretty good handle on aesthetics in general, which is why I think most modern studio furniture is dumb looking, and why there's no good reason to expose common joints. I've also got no idea why you're repeating the spelling of the word. Maybe you can clarify why you'd do that and spell it the same way I do?

 

[Jacob]

You can spell esthetics how you like, you have my permission.
But beware of 'Estheticians' - they are into 'microdermabrasion' apparently, keep your back to the wall. :shock:

 

[D_W]

You can spell esthetics how you like, you have my permission.
But beware of 'Estheticians' - they are into 'microdermabrasion' apparently, keep your back to the wall. :shock:

Ahh, you were the spelling culprit. I won't claim to be anything of an expert on writing, reading, and so on, but agree with you on krenov. Never saw the big deal.

Think the dovetails with "visual tension" look like buck teeth, though I'll give Derek credit - he made them as cleanly as they could be made.

I'll go back to making my "baulky" planes, but I can't get bucky beaver out of my head. His teeth have visual tension.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB7fJYyPTko

(In the states, balky - the way most people spell it - means uncooperative or stubborn. I have to wonder how that fits with the wood billets, as they work quite agreeably).

 

[D_W]

Ah the language Stazi!

The language Stasi will get you for spelling their name that way!

 

[Jacob]

...
Think the dovetails with "visual tension" look like buck teeth, though I'll give Derek credit - he made them as cleanly as they could be made.
...

He could do a cosmetic dentist job and fill in the gaps with carefully made inserts?

 

[G S Haydon]

Classic! Try and prove a point, spell it wrong. Or was it proper English?

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

DW wrote:

Think the dovetails with "visual tension" look like buck teeth, though I'll give Derek credit - he made them as cleanly as they could be made.

You insult me Sir!!

I challenge you to dovetail chisels at dawn! :lol:

Who will be your second? Graham, will you sharpen my Wards?

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[woodbrains]

Mike is correct - there is a good reason to place the dovetails closer to the outside. Krenov frequently did so, and he wrote about the technique. His argument was that the ends of the drawer are under greater stress than the centre.

Regards from Perth

Derek

It's nonsense. Krenov was an amateur, he said so himself, over and over again. I think he was embarrassed by the guru status thrust upon him. Didn't stop him from idly making up all sorts of woodworking theories nor a lot of lazy acolytes from soaking them up!

PS I always sense that whenever anybody uses the word 'correct' in woodwork chats they are talking nonsense. It's a fairly safe rule of thumb.

Hello,

As you have been corrected before, several times in fact, Krenov said he was an amateur 'in the true sense of the word'. Which means, doing things for the love of it, not being forced into professional expedients. He earned a living by making cabinets, writing and teaching woodwork, so in the true sense, he was a professional woodworker, he just refused to make things to a standard that did not suit his 'aesthetic'. By the way, he used to work in piece work factories, so before anyone makes comment about his work ethic, I think you'll find he worked very hard and knew about productivity.

Mike.