Hand cut dovetails in sapele

[Jacob]

..... the shortage isn't of capable makers, it's of buyers.....

If you are a maker/seller - making to sell but not achieving this, then you are an incapable maker/seller by definition; you can't blame the buyers.
You can't blame the fish if you fail to catch any, however excellent your kit and your confidence in your skill and knowledge!

Too many themes and ideas in this interesting thread!

 

[bugbear]

..... the shortage isn't of capable makers, it's of buyers.....

If you are a maker/seller - making to sell but not achieving this, then you are an incapable maker/seller by definition; you can't blame the buyers.

Your theory makes Van Gogh an "incapable" painter. Provocative view, but not widely held.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

..... the shortage isn't of capable makers, it's of buyers.....

If you are a maker/seller - making to sell but not achieving this, then you are an incapable maker/seller by definition; you can't blame the buyers.

Your theory makes Van Gogh an "incapable" painter. Provocative view, but not widely held.

BugBear

Well yes, but it's not widely held that anybody who makes anything but fails to sell it, is an under appreciated genius!

 

[essexalan]

That Moser table and chairs looks like something Ikea might sell neither of which is to my taste. Furniture I have is made by Wood Brothers (Old Charm oak) and Ercol, elm, which has stood up up to a lot of hard use and will get passed down to my daughters if they want it. I do admire the work of a lot of woodworkers but that does not mean I like the product. For instance I do not like a lot of what Krenov made but his construction techniques, design and use of wood are a good read. I never understood why these artists in various genre require sponsorship so they can indulge themselves, build something that looks good, functional and at a good price and you will probably never be rich but will spend a lifetime in a vocation you enjoy.
I could never hope to build anything like what I see on here, particularly the architectural joinery, Jacob?, and the stuff Derek makes so I will not attempt it, I can put a mean edge on a chisel or plane iron though!

 

[Droogs]

Well yes, but it's not widely held that anybody who makes anything but fails to sell it, is an under appreciated genius!

I agree there Jacob, They're just a really carp salesman. And this is the part where the majority of modern makers fail, it's not enough to just put up a pic on etsy etc, you have to putin some real slogg to get noticed and have to be everyready to promote yourself which a lot of them don't

 

[G S Haydon]

Philip, he could of added another £50 . Sadly, when trying to make the finest, truly bespoke work, from the best timber with using the most skilled trades, it is easy to get the pricing wrong. Especially if the client want to be harsh. Although those things were expensive I doubt there was an open ended cheque book. I'm sure the client was firm on cost and then was likely to pay late, if at times, at all

Thanks Mike, I must be clear though. The deisgn was not mine, it was provided by the client. I did not persoanlly make them. My role is meeting with clients, discussing how we might do something, pricing etc. I did used to make similar stuff though . On Moser, aRT with a small a. When it's trully one off it's ART with a capital A. I'm not sure Derek Cohen will like it but I view him as an exceptional maker with a capital A. From what I can see he makes for the pure selfreward and is good enough to document it too. He is an artist to my mind, no question. If he had to charge for it it would be rightly, hugely expensive. It's good to be able to remove the burnden of having to sell your stuff.

Although roundly detested by hipster makers I think http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/ is the "Gentleman's & Cabinet Makers Director" for the masses. They have some very good design and some of it is quite well made. Sure, some of it is junk and I'd like to see some more durable cheap pieces but it's a much more realistic model than meet a local hipster for furniture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTcvmmOkqJI

David, thanks for the feedback. I'll point you in the direction of my comment to Mike to clarifly my role within that project. I had assumed you'd detest it due to the paint

Ercol made some smashing stuff, essexalan.

 

[D_W]

..... the shortage isn't of capable makers, it's of buyers.....

If you are a maker/seller - making to sell but not achieving this, then you are an incapable maker/seller by definition; you can't blame the buyers.
You can't blame the fish if you fail to catch any, however excellent your kit and your confidence in your skill and knowledge!

Too many themes and ideas in this interesting thread!

It's a multi-faceted issue. One is that people with means would rather spend the money on a Mercedes, or they have no taste for high end furniture regardless of other money demands. Two, the makers decide what they want to make and then try to push market it by showing it, often to people who are window shoppers. Three, the theoretical limit of buyers probably still is far fewer than what it would take to keep makers busy.

If anything, Moser's biggest achievement is finding buyers. How do you find people who will pay 5 grand for this, or 6 if it's made of walnut?

http://www.thosmoser.com/category/bedro ... anket_box/ It is tidy, but boring. Doesn't use wide boards, you can see the glue lines, and it has plain chamfers stabbed onto areas that should be something more interesting (and could be, even with mostly machine making like they do). I realize things like sourcing wide boards for a relatively large business presents a cost, but for that price, I'd expect it.

To paraphrase Morty Seinfeld, cheap fabric and dim lighting. Or in this case, a very flashy showroom. Sell the showroom, not the piece.
http://www.thosmoser.com/showroom.detai ... wroom_id=4

They do it well.

I'll bet they do better (dollars per unit of work output) than the one local furniture maker that I know of who is making truly fine furniture, and not just simple studio furniture:
http://foundingfurniture.com/?page_id=105

I hope he makes it, I've seen his furniture in person, and it is wonderful - even to someone like me who is not that interested in furniture. I hope his wife has a good job so that his business can absorb a few bumps.

 

[D_W]

David, thanks for the feedback. I'll point you in the direction of my comment to Mike to clarifly my role within that project. I had assumed you'd detest it due to the paint

It's excellent, what can I say? The paint suits it well - far different than furniture pulled out of the skip around here, painted with milk paint and then intentionally beat to death.

I'd imagine the client loves it if their eyes and brains work properly.

 

[G S Haydon]

Client is indeed please. However the shower that leaked and ruined their ceiling is another story. Luckily that had nothing to do with me!

http://foundingfurniture.com/?page_id=105 Very nice! Impressive standard of work.

 

[Trafalgar]

David, at the end of the day I think Mr. Moser has it figured out (he's been in business since 1972). He's not a studio furnituremaker and never claimed to be. He started out with himself and then added Chris Becksvoort, Bill Huston and a few others -- guys who went on to make names for themselves but his model always had a production element to it -- not a series of one-off commissions. His timing was perfect, he was making Shaker just when it got really hot.

With regard to fine historic reproductions, these two outfits, one a partnership and the other a sole proprietorship are hands-down the best in the U.S. in my opinion.

http://www.andersenandstauffer.com/

http://www.jeffreygreenenewport.com/jeffrey_greene.htm

 

[D_W]

David, at the end of the day I think Mr. Moser has it figured out. He's not a studio furnituremaker and never claimed to be. He started out with himself and then added Chris Becksvoort, Bill Huston and a few others -- guys who went on to make names for themselves but his model always had a production element to it -- not a series of one-off commissions.

With regard to fine historic reproductions, these two outfits, one a partnership and the other a sole proprietorship are hands-down the best in the U.S. in my opinion.

http://www.andersenandstauffer.com/

http://www.jeffreygreenenewport.com/jeffrey_greene.htm

Absolutely stunning furniture. It is practically looks alive, proportion and depth and no miscues to distract from its design. I'm sure the large pieces are more than either of my cars (hopefully they will hold value better over a decade).

In regard to what I think of Moser, it's really an issue of them having a limited slice of the market that will be a customer for simple designs at big dollars. However, they know their market, and it's like cadillac hybrids. There aren't many people who will buy them, because they look like a chevrolet volt to me at twice the price, but I'm not the customer for that kind of thing. Other people are, though.

The two makers you just linked are more like hand builders of Ferrari replicas in that comparison.

 

[Trafalgar]

Jeffrey Greene is an MIT-trained engineer and chucked that to build furniture. He wrote what's become a standard work in the field many years ago that was published by Taunton Press.

 

[memzey]

There are a couple of guys called Doucette and Wolfe with a YouTube channel that also make some fabulous stuff. Very relaxing videos to watch as well.

 

[D_W]

There are a couple of guys called Doucette and Wolfe with a YouTube channel that also make some fabulous stuff. Very relaxing videos to watch as well.

Rob Millard, too (though federal period is a bit stale compared to the two makers Charlie linked). I guess we've found furniture I'm interested in and would like to take a stab at maybe a decade or two from now once I've made myself the tools and guitars that I'd like to have but don't have any interest in buying.

But that's sort of like saying that we've found music that is interesting to non-musicians...... Say no to Riverdance, mediocre marketing genius guitarists, etc....

 

[Trafalgar]

There are a couple of guys called Doucette and Wolfe with a YouTube channel that also make some fabulous stuff. Very relaxing videos to watch as well.

Doucette and Wolfe are a husband and wife team I believe. They're great, close but not quite as good as the firms I linked IMO.

 

[D_W]

There are a couple of guys called Doucette and Wolfe with a YouTube channel that also make some fabulous stuff. Very relaxing videos to watch as well.

Doucette and Wolfe are a husband and wife team I believe. They're great, close but not quite as good as the firms I linked IMO.

Do you think you'd make furniture like that if you could find the customer base to pay for it?

I've not made furniture of any type more complicated than dovetailed general case work, so I have no clue if I could ever even make anything like that (meaning after a half dozen years of trying with a significant amount of hours in a given week) - probably not. Certainly not in an environment with deadlines and customers calling in the middle of work. It would be an expensive endeavor given the cost of materials in some of those pieces. It would make building infills at a couple of hundred dollars a pop look pretty cheap.

 

[Trafalgar]

I don't have the skills to do that sort of work. People commissioning work with these firms expect a waiting period, which I assume at times easily exceeds a year, and in the interim have to place a deposit of between 30% and 50% of the price of the piece.

Even with the skills, one would be competing directly with these guys and others. Rarefied air for sure.

That said, the customer base is worldwide. People wouldn't let shipping and insurance cost get in their way though customers situated in the Northeast have several makers to choose from and might tend to do business as locally as they can.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

I doubt you could give that sort of furniture away in Britain. :wink:

Mike.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Funny, that was what occurred to me when I looked at it. Very beautiful, very clever stuff ... but when you struggle to sell the genuine stuff there'd be little point in copying it. "Brown Furniture" is a no no.

 

[Trafalgar]

It's a limited market here as well, and a well-covered one at that.

Worth a read: http://irionlumber.com/wp-content/uploa ... W198BI.pdf

Sadly, I don't believe Irion Furnituremakers are still around though I believe the lumber yard is. Were those guys still assembled together as a working firm, they'd be one of the top five in the world, easily best in the U.S., IMO of course.