Hancock's Half Hour

[ScaredyCat]

I can almost guarantee you that the majority of people who are calling for lockdown etc to continue are people who have a steady income such as a pension and are relatively unaffected by the economics of all this. I've asked people before to put their cards on the table in terms of their age and living situation, they have not done so, I suspect they are ashamed to let it be known that they are old, rich (or at least comfortable) and scared of dying so they think everyone else should suffer to protect them.

That's a **** tonne of assumption , right there.

I'm not scared of dying, I'm scared of being the one that ends up killing my wife because I get infected if I have to mix with morons who don't understand social distancing and who refuse to wear a mask - or those that deny it's even a problem. You only have to look at what happened when the pubs opened - Jesus ******* christ - if you're that desperate for a drink, you have a problem.

.

 

[Rorschach]

You miss one key point Roger, infections were falling before lockdown started.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... -lockdown/

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/new ... e-lockdown

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... kdown.html

 

[Lons]

How much should I pay to keep Lons feeling secure and safe?

I think you perhaps are spending far too much time in the close proximity of your pigs fella. :wink:
As you live in foreign climes you almost certainly are paying absolutely zilch towards keeping me or any other UK resident safe, if you elect to live in Greece and be bound by Greek law then complain about that rather than the actions of a country you are not a resident in, you can't have it both ways.
If your government aren't giving you £10k or £25k handouts and interest free / low interest loans, rates holidays etc. either move back to the UK where they have done or keep your mouth firmly zipped. :roll:

As an aside, I'm not especially vulnerable apart from age but my wife is so I isolate to protect her, after all following a lifetme working in the NHS from the age of 18 caring for patients of all ages she deserves to be given a chance to enjoy her retirement although you and Rorschach suggest otherwise.
I am very fit with no underlying issues, yes I have pensions in a addition to the state pension ( which is one of the worst in the developed world ) but I paid into those over a lifetime of salaried work and my own business and saved as much as I could so that is and always has been my money earned by planning and prudent action, you're not the only one who has gone through difficult times and as a taxpayer I'm also contributing to the huge cost of the lockdown in the UK and will for the rest of my life as are my family but you are not so I'd strongly suggest you join a Greek forum and spout your cr*p on there. As I said once before, typical bloody farmer!

Rorschach wrote:
I've asked people before to put their cards on the table in terms of their age and living situation, they have not done so, I suspect they are ashamed to let it be known that they are old, rich (or at least comfortable) and scared of dying so they think everyone else should suffer to protect them.

Absolute bullsh*t, several of us including me have clearly spelled out our situation while you have not and have flatly refused saying that people would be able to recognise who you are from what you do. What are you so afraid of pal? Easy to hide behind a keyboard an make accusations while admitting you have done pretty well out of the government ( taxpayers ) handouts.
Come out of the cupboard and let people see who you really are. Maybe a Butler sprog, or as Rafezetta said just a "Karen"...... He's far too kind I would be much more blunt than that

 

[Rorschach]

Absolute bullsh*t, several of us including me have clearly spelled out our situation while you have not and have flatly refused

I think you need to go back a few pages, I put my cards out when talking to woody :wink:
(Around the 8th June on this thread)

 

[ScaredyCat]

The actual report https://arxiv.org/pdf/2005.02090.pdf says it used the "least compromised data"

It also says...

"This paper does not prove that the peak in fatal infections in England and Wales preceded lockdown by several days. " and

"it will never be possible to be certain about timings, given the severe biases in clinical data other than deaths and fatal disease duration."

edit for 'conclusion'
.

 

[RogerS]

You miss one key point Roger, infections were falling before lockdown started.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... -lockdown/

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/new ... e-lockdown

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... kdown.html

Um, no. All those articles do is confirm the view that we entered lockdown a week too late.

 

[Rorschach]

You miss one key point Roger, infections were falling before lockdown started.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... -lockdown/

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/new ... e-lockdown

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... kdown.html

Um, no. All those articles do is confirm the view that we entered lockdown a week too late.

:shock: What? How on earth do you get to that conclusion?

 

[RogerS]

You miss one key point Roger, infections were falling before lockdown started.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... -lockdown/

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/new ... e-lockdown

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... kdown.html

Um, no. All those articles do is confirm the view that we entered lockdown a week too late.

It's called mathematics. If you have 100,000 infected people running around and each infecting another 10 or more (exact number irrelevant) then if they were in lockdown (a week earlier) they would not be infecting people.

:shock: What? How on earth do you get to that conclusion?

 

[Rorschach]

You clearly don't understand the mathematics involved here.

 

[Lons]

Absolute bullsh*t, several of us including me have clearly spelled out our situation while you have not and have flatly refused

I think you need to go back a few pages, I put my cards out when talking to woody :wink:
(Around the 8th June on this thread)

No you didn't, half a hand of cards isn't enough when you accuse others of not doing so. I can't be bothered but in the event of your convenient memory loss will happily find the post where you declined to give details of your work giving the reason I stated. I repeat what are you so scared of?

Your father must have left you pretty scarred which is sad but your comment that you wouldn't leave your kids with your sister in law as well as the numbers of people you upset on here gives an inkling into your character.
Are you just unlucky that so many people find you obnoxious or could it be perhaps that you just are! :wink:

I'll respond to your forthcoming excuses in a few hours time when I get back as I need to finish cutting the grass. For someone who says he's never stopped working during the lockdown you seem to have plenty of time to waste on the internet, curious!

 

[Trainee neophyte]

As you live in foreign climes you almost certainly are paying absolutely zilch towards keeping me or any other UK resident safe,

I quite unfairly pulled your name out of the hat based on the amount of noise, but everyone insisting that no economic activity is allowed to take place is forcing the largest transfer of wealth in the history of mankind. Forget my tawdry little lack of income; think about every person in the world who is not able/allowed to conduct business because of the virus. Every one of them dipping into savings, selling assets, just to survive. Where will that wealth end up? Who currently has the money to buy, when so many are selling?

I don't get any government support, but if I did, I would still get to pay for it, for the next three generations, should I live that long. The longer this goes on, the bigger the effect will be on inflation. Remember the 70s? Right now I am struggling, but in 18 months everyone will be losing out. We live in interesting times. The quicker we get back to "normal", the fewer of the 1.1 billion people "at risk of starving" will actually die. Hopefully.

 

[Rorschach]

No you didn't, half a hand of cards isn't enough when you accuse others of not doing so. I can't be bothered but in the event of your convenient memory loss will happily find the post where you declined to give details of your work giving the reason I stated. I repeat what are you so scared of?

What would make you happy then, what do you NEED to know? You gonna do the same, post your full name and address in a public forum?

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I broadly agree with TN views - however uncomfortable we may individually find it.

Resources and money are finite. We need to decide how they are deployed. As an individual we do this - is a holiday more impotant than a new bandsaw, food for the kids or a few pints down the pub etc.

Nations (and businesses) have exactly the same issue. Leaving aside the illusion of "magic money trees", all need to live within their means. For an individual normally the constraint is pay or pension, a nation has other options - particularly taxation (complex).

It would also be wrong to assume that money is the only consideration - morality, emotion, sentiment etc come into play.

Governments across the world put a value on individual lives to allow prioritisation of (say) road safety improvement projects, or rail vs air vs road safety investment. That is the easy bit - the evaluation may have regard for reductions in journey times, pollution, environment, communities etc.

For CV-19 I do not believe it can simply be a case of minimise risk to life at any cost. We need to be aware of the price paid for so single minded an approach - other impacted issues - eg: cancer treatments, morality, imposing debt upon future generations, economic growth which bears on hunger, poverty etc etc.

It is unsurprising that for some, selfish personal needs overwhelmingly dictate the response. It would be far better to accept that tolerance of a compromised solution is far more likely buy-in from all groups.

 

[woodhutt]

I read today that, based on studies in Spain, the evidence suggests that "herd immunity" is a non-starter as only 5% of those who had recovered from Covid had developed antibodies, the remaining 95% being susceptible to re-infection.
To quote The Lancet on this subject:
"In light of these findings, any proposed approach to achieve herd immunity through natural infection is not only highly unethical, but also unachievable."
Pete

 

[Lons]

No you didn't, half a hand of cards isn't enough when you accuse others of not doing so. I can't be bothered but in the event of your convenient memory loss will happily find the post where you declined to give details of your work giving the reason I stated. I repeat what are you so scared of?

What would make you happy then, what do you NEED to know? You gonna do the same, post your full name and address in a public forum?

You're the one who said "cards on the table", I've posted what I do, what I did for a living and pretty much most other things and my email address and location are very easy to find as is proven by the numbers of enquiries I get direct for machine manuals.
I don't NEED anything from you and don't especially want to know you as I find your general views offensive and crass but if you aren't prepared to put up then I respectfully suggest you shut up.
I repeat, what are you so scared of that you can't divulge details of your work?

 

[Rorschach]

I read today that, based on studies in Spain, the evidence suggests that "herd immunity" is a non-starter as only 5% of those who had recovered from Covid had developed antibodies, the remaining 95% being susceptible to re-infection.
To quote The Lancet on this subject:
"In light of these findings, any proposed approach to achieve herd immunity through natural infection is not only highly unethical, but also unachievable."
Pete

That's very interesting. Clearly though widespread reinfection is not happening, or we have not seen it yet.
If 95% of those infected are susceptible to reinfection then it's a very worrying outlook as a vaccine is no help. What on earth do we do going forward, lockdown no matter how long won't make it go away, too many essential services need to be carried out and even if we could carry out say a complete one month lockdown in the UK where everyone gets a month of rations and then never leaves their house, what about the rest of the world? They can't do that.

 

[Rorschach]

You're the one who said "cards on the table", I've posted what I do, what I did for a living and pretty much most other things and my email address and location are very easy to find as is proven by the numbers of enquiries I get direct for machine manuals.
I don't NEED anything from you and don't especially want to know you as I find your general views offensive and crass but if you aren't prepared to put up then I respectfully suggest you shut up.
I repeat, what are you so scared of that you can't divulge details of your work?

Giving out your email address privately is not quite the same as posting your name and home address for all the world to see is it? :roll:
Anyway, you don't like my views, that's fine, I won't lose any sleep. Please feel free to ignore me, block me, whatever you fancy really, no one is forcing you to engage with me. I'm going to stop replying to your comments now, have a good evening

 

[Lons]

You're the one who said "cards on the table", I've posted what I do, what I did for a living and pretty much most other things and my email address and location are very easy to find as is proven by the numbers of enquiries I get direct for machine manuals.
I don't NEED anything from you and don't especially want to know you as I find your general views offensive and crass but if you aren't prepared to put up then I respectfully suggest you shut up.
I repeat, what are you so scared of that you can't divulge details of your work?

Giving out your email address privately is not quite the same as posting your name and home address for all the world to see is it? :roll:
Anyway, you don't like my views, that's fine, I won't lose any sleep. Please feel free to ignore me, block me, whatever you fancy really, no one is forcing you to engage with me.

That's not what I said, read it properly. :roll:

I'm going to stop replying to your comments now, have a good evening

Thank you, on second thoughts maybe that's exactly what you need to do.

 

[Lons]

Have just watched a prog on BBC2 ( Mon 6th at 11.30 pm ) called Italy's Frontline , a doctors diary, maybe worth a watch on catch up tv for anyone interested. Powerful stuff.

 

[doctor Bob]

As was Britains cancer crisis on BBC1, lots of young and middle age people losing their lives and savings. Theropies stopped mid way through, one lady spending £250k to have private treatment stopped by NHS. The effects and deaths will be considerable.
Difficult balancing act, but it seems like cancer care just stopped, so I suppose it wasn't a balance at all.
For me with parents who are 87, I know they have had a wonderful life and I will be devastated when they die, but would I (I know they wouldn't) put them before a young woman with 3 kids and potentially years of forefilling life ahead of them, NO.
Very easy to have the caring attitude for instant death (days and weeks) and forget about the long term deaths over the next few years. Seems selfish and unthought through.
Please (general broadcast) don't start frothing at the mouth, it gets people no where and just stops me responding, also I will not respond to pointy finger accusations, be rational and nice :lol: