Guns,guns, and more Guns

[Spectric]

Until the punishment outweighs the gains then there will be gangs and criminals, they will use force to protect their criminal assets and innocent people will get caught up in the war. Everyone involved in this conflict probably started at the same point, some just could not cope with life and turned to drugs as a get out, others saw no future and became suppliers to earn easy cash whilst some kept right out of the way and run things from a far and have become mega rich. It is a problem that could be solved much easier than global warming but whatever method is used will not be popular by all. Will arming all police solve anything, not really because all you need is heavily armed hit squads that target these criminals when the need arises and not for general policing.

 

[GregW]

I think this is the most incredible and shocking response I have ever seen I think I will wish you well pal. Be safe.

Prove me wrong

1. All small dealers have to cooperate with police, or there are targeted by police, so they have no “customers”.
2. All big drug traffickers work for MI offices, as from 90’, because “better criminal with us, than new criminal agains us”. Plus, drugs are less deadly, and when supplied by shadow gov org actually cuts profits of organised crime.
3. guns are not a problem, AMMO IS A PROBLEM, and that market is 100% strictly controlled by gov…

 

[GregW]

Until the punishment outweighs the gains then there will be gangs and criminals, they will use force to protect their criminal assets and innocent people will get caught up in the war. Everyone involved in this conflict probably started at the same point, some just could not cope with life and turned to drugs as a get out, others saw no future and became suppliers to earn easy cash whilst some kept right out of the way and run things from a far and have become mega rich. It is a problem that could be solved much easier than global warming but whatever method is used will not be popular by all. Will arming all police solve anything, not really because all you need is heavily armed hit squads that target these criminals when the need arises and not for general policing.

solution to all, is a education, empathy, self discipline, opportunities greater than criminal root.

Why criminals become criminals? Is starts from early years education. Instead boring calculus they fighting with weight of life. Do you think a pro-thief getting 15k for 1 month of alcohol and electronics thieving will got work for minimum wage…? And I Ben if he will be forced to SETTLE DOWN, how he replace dopamine drive from adrenaline??

 

[Blackswanwood]

No I said junkies but in a polite way, the sort who would beat up an old granny just to get some cash for their next dose and really they are already administering a poison so it would just really be an additive.

Ah yes. That makes perfect sense now. Presumably we’d label it so vulnerable addicts don’t mistakenly take it …

 

[shed9]

Shootings in London on the rise despite lockdown, police reveal
Scotland Yard figures reveal 288 incidents in 2020 where a lethal firearm was discharged, compared with 266 in 2019. Sadly this is year on year higher so the genie has left the bottle! It not something normal people rejoice in these dreadful figures but it's best facing reality and thankfully brighter minds have armed our police thus police can defend themselves and the citizens they protect!

That's a headline from Sky from over 11 months ago of which you conveniently ignore the entire context of homicides dropping by 16% and violent crime by 26% within that same period. I also find it strange that the Met doesn't distinguish between air-powered firearms and the traditional definition of firearm, at least not in their published stats like the ONS. On average it's a 50/50 split on firearms being actually fired or simply used as a threat. It is also important to understand that a gun discharge is a subset of gun crime in which the discharge is merely the crime in itself and doesn't necessarily involve threat, just stupidity.

In reality there is far greater threat from sharp instruments and objects than firearms from a crime statistic point of view, should we be arming police with Kitchen Devils instead?

 

[GregW]

100%

That's a headline from Sky from over 11 months ago of which you conveniently ignore the entire context of homicides dropping by 16% and violent crime by 26% within that same period. I also find it strange that the Met doesn't distinguish between air-powered firearms and the traditional definition of firearm, at least not in their published stats like the ONS. On average it's a 50/50 split on firearms being actually fired or simply used as a threat. It is also important to understand that a gun discharge is a subset of gun crime.

In reality there is far greater threat from sharp instruments and objects than firearms from a crime statistic point of view, should we be arming police with Kitchen Devils instead?

 

[RobinBHM]

I don't believe most of us wish to have every officer armed! Stay on point my friend, but many of us value our Police and the very dangerous job they do each day and as gun crime in increasing its a necessary step for our officers to protect and be protected.

I am on point

The increase has been 22 incidents in a year - which is bigger all.

So if you think officers should be protected, I presume that means all officers should carry guns, is that not what you mean?

 

[RobinBHM]

No you can't but there are many other avenues where you can get a Czech CZ75 for £200 or a battered but working Chinese or Czech AK copy for under £500, routes that are not affected in any way as to operability or availablity by weak or strong gun laws.

and the ammunition?

given the incredibly low level of gun violence I find it hard to see criminals are getting hold of guns

 

[RobinBHM]

Would you be so kind as to give us an example of such a place?

America

 

[RobinBHM]

How many of the 10400 assaults resulting in police injury wouldn't have occurred?

most assaults are drunk youths in city centres.
domestics
etc

I don’t see armed police being awfully helpful in a pub fight.

 

[D_W]

most assaults are drunk youths in city centres.
domestics
etc

I don’t see armed police being awfully helpful in a pub fight.

it is certainly the case of me being in the states, too - I don't know what goes on in England, so if I'm thinking about police in inner cities here, or near border areas where they're literally being shot at by cartels, it's just a totally different context.

In my suburb, the police carry guns - they do everywhere. There has actually been one police shooting here in the 16 years I've lived here - but it was a state drug agent chasing a large illegal drug distributor into a retail parking lot and getting into a shootout. The reaction wasn't "good job" (the DEA agent won the shootout, the dealer who started it assumed ambient temperature), the reaction was outrage that the officer put others at risk.

Aggressive police behavior isn't tolerated here, but when I travel out of my own area, I'm wary enough to know that it's generally better to avoid the police unless you have a need for them at the time. I expect (in the united states), most of them to be armed to protect themselves. Not in wild west style shootouts, but against people who are high or something and trying to stab them or run over them.

 

[Louie10]

Prove me wrong

1. All small dealers have to cooperate with police, or there are targeted by police, so they have no “customers”.
2. All big drug traffickers work for MI offices, as from 90’, because “better criminal with us, than new criminal agains us”. Plus, drugs are less deadly, and when supplied by shadow gov org actually cuts profits of organised crime.
3. guns are not a problem, AMMO IS A PROBLEM, and that market is 100% strictly controlled by gov…

To smear the Police in this fashion is a fowl and disrespectful horrible thing to say, I did feel uncomfortable talking with you and this is as clear an indication to bring this to an end, show respect to our force and honor yourself by doing so, I wish you well.

 

[artie]

Prove me wrong

This is a complex subject and I usually get in trouble for my views but I would like to politely point out that generally the burden of proof falls on the claimant.

 

[GregW]

it is certainly the case of me being in the states, too - I don't know what goes on in England, so if I'm thinking about police in inner cities here, or near border areas where they're literally being shot at by cartels, it's just a totally different context.

In my suburb, the police carry guns - they do everywhere. There has actually been one police shooting here in the 16 years I've lived here - but it was a state drug agent chasing a large illegal drug distributor into a retail parking lot and getting into a shootout. The reaction wasn't "good job" (the DEA agent won the shootout, the dealer who started it assumed ambient temperature), the reaction was outrage that the officer put others at risk.

Aggressive police behavior isn't tolerated here, but when I travel out of my own area, I'm wary enough to know that it's generally better to avoid the police unless you have a need for them at the time. I expect (in the united states), most of them to be armed to protect themselves. Not in wild west style shootouts, but against people who are high or something and trying to stab them or run over them.

stop CIA selling ammo all over the place.
Do you know what would make guns saver?
User id on a trigger

 

[D_W]

stop CIA selling ammo all over the place.
Do you know what would make guns saver?
User id on a trigger

We have a constitutional issue with brash changes on firearms in the US - they have to go through the courts.

But the issue is above my pay grade. I used to be an avid hunter and target shooter, but living in the burbs, the opportunity is nil without spending a lot of money and I also have small kids, so I sold all of my "hardware" a while ago. I don't have any real hard thoughts on all of it - like I said, in a longer context, I can see the value of firearms in limiting government encroachment from a period of centuries or more where people were subjects, but going forwards, it's too complex of a discussion for me to do anything other than stay out of.

I live in the supposed wild west US, but did not feel safer with guns in the house than I do now without. Before covid, I would walk freely in the city and catch the bus across from a seedy stop and still the idea that I wasn't safe never crossed my mind, so I vaguely recall the discussion here earlier on about how hard it was to be safe in the US. It just doesn't match reality for most people.

 

[GregW]

We have a constitutional issue with brash changes on firearms in the US - they have to go through the courts.

But the issue is above my pay grade. I used to be an avid hunter and target shooter, but living in the burbs, the opportunity is nil without spending a lot of money and I also have small kids, so I sold all of my "hardware" a while ago. I don't have any real hard thoughts on all of it - like I said, in a longer context, I can see the value of firearms in limiting government encroachment from a period of centuries or more where people were subjects, but going forwards, it's too complex of a discussion for me to do anything other than stay out of.

I live in the supposed wild west US, but did not feel safer with guns in the house than I do now without. Before covid, I would walk freely in the city and catch the bus across from a seedy stop and still the idea that I wasn't safe never crossed my mind, so I vaguely recall the discussion here earlier on about how hard it was to be safe in the US. It just doesn't match reality for most people.

Just imagine a place that, when you fall below there is plenty of help, instead take drastic measures not to die.

PS. Cartels are easy to kill off, but it is nore profitable to keep them shooting bullets without training all over, and not knowing how to care for a firearm sell them a new soon. Sound like good business.

 

[bansobaby]

I would like to introduce the statistics from a country yet to be mentioned (as far as I am aware).
It has only one official firearms dealership…..(the US has 67,000)……
The rules for citizens to legally hold a firearm are arguably as tough or tougher than the UK…..
Murder by firearm accounts for over half of all murders, up from around a quarter 25 years ago…..
I am currently in said country and even though I shoot fairly regularly in the UK I have seen more guns here in the last few weeks than I would see in a year in the UK……all carried by the police or military.
The country is Mexico and has well over 35,000 murders a year…
Official figures suggest that around 70% of guns seized by Mexican law enforcement originated in one of those 67,000 gun shops in the US…….
I know this goes far beyond gun control and is very much tied to drugs but it seems to me that the US is almost allowing the export of its guns in the same way as the cartels are exporting their products back into the US.
How much of this is accepted or possibly even condoned????

 

[Sideways]

Several years ago, I recall reading what I believe to be credible figures that said following the UK ban on handgun ownership and confiscation of all such registered sporting arms, the number of guns in (predominantly) illegal owner ship was now three times greater than before the registered guns were removed.
Gun control in the UK has a history of politicians acting so that they can be seen to be doing something. It doesn't solve anything. It's purely gesture politics.

 

[artie]

In this small jurisdiction there were until recently approaching 10,000 licenced Taxis.
In order for a car to be licenced as a Taxi, it must be fitted with a fire extinguisher of a certain specification.

I cannot remember a Taxi fire but I can recall a number of drivers being shot dead, stabbed or beaten badly.

Perhaps some kind of defence mechanism should be added to licencing requirements.

 

[bansobaby]

Several years ago, I recall reading what I believe to be credible figures that said following the UK ban on handgun ownership and confiscation of all such registered sporting arms, the number of guns in (predominantly) illegal owner ship was now three times greater than before the registered guns were removed.
Gun control in the UK has a history of politicians acting so that they can be seen to be doing something. It doesn't solve anything. It's purely gesture politics.

I believe that is true, although the rise in illegal gun possession would probably have occurred anyway, although of course there is no way to prove this.
What I find interesting is that you can have countries with high legal gun ownership/possession (i.e Switzerland, although perhaps not the best example as it’s mandated possession) but very low gun crime and on the other hand, Mexico, which believe it or not has very low legal gun possession but a snotgobblingly high number of gun crimes, (admittedly they just used machetes in the past but have upped the use of guns because they don’t get quite so messy).
Gun laws and gun crimes are not necessarily correlated….