Grinder upgrade. What's the best bet currently?

[GarF]

Finally completed the other tasks that had kept me from turning some fresh material I recently acquired. Felt as though I was beginning to get back some feel for the tools by the time I'd finished roughing out , not to mention the satisfaction of being knee deep in shavings. However, my grinder has blotted it's copy book, possibly for the last time.

I'm sure many will be familiar with the cheap high speed grinders we beginners are prone to buying. Mine vibrated like mad from new. Eventually resolved by packing (card and masking tape)to get the stones running perpendicular to the spindle, and radial adjustment to get the two stones non-concentricity reasonably well in balance.

During the last touch up of my gouges last night I noticed the vibration was back and getting worse. Power off. By the time the motor was spinning down I could tell that one of the retaining nuts was loose. A lucky escape on several fronts....
1. the stone didn't get as far as testing the wheel guard-probably wouldn't have ended well
2. I didn't need to sharpen again that session- taking off the guards to refix and rebalance the stones is a royal PITA, which would have meant a very late night or abandoning the bowl half finished, probably firewood.
It's not the first time either. Last time I used threadlock when I reassembled, but this was evidently not sufficient to withstand the combination of vibration and poor engineering. I could spend the morning reassembling the grinder, but I'd rather spend the time with my family.

Long story short I'm thinking in terms of shelling out for a proper grinder, probably with a CBN wheel. I want to spend my time woodworking, not nursing duff equipment. The grinder will be used for turning tools and regrinding the primary bevel on my bench tools at times, hence I'm thinking in terms of a slow speed grinder with a wide CBN on one side.

Under normal circumstances I'd probably watch eBay for a used Creusen, but for now I'm only interested in 'in stock' options from UK suppliers.

So I'd be very grateful if anyone can recommend what's good currently, as most of the stuff I've read so far was a couple of years old.
Many thanks
G

 

[Lazurus]

Creusen slow speed with a sorby jig, fast accurate repeateable grinds. The standard wheels are pretty good and last well, you can add a CBN when they expire.

 

[GarF]

Sort of what I was thinking, the sorby jig I already have. Unfortunately Axminster stopped carrying them a few years ago in favour of their own brand, and nowhere else appears to either to the extent that I wonder if they're still in production.

 

[Lazurus]

Yes I puchased another at the end of last year but cant remember the distributor may have been Cromwell tools

 

[That would work]

I have a Record 6" with a white stone which I would wholeheartedly recommend.
6" has a lower peripheral speed so slightly less likely to burn compared to 8".

 

[LaymarCrafts]

I recently upgraded my Bench Grinder and was looking for the Creusen Slow Speed but came across what I believe is a substitute unit from Dictum, who are based in Germany , which is as good as the Creusen.

150mm Slow Speed, 370w and with CBN package option took 3 days for delivery which was free.

Well worth a look and competitive with Creusen

 

[Inspector]

G I'm wondering if you ever tried the grinder without any wheels on it when you got it? If it ran smoothly then your issue would be with bad wheels, poorly made washers or both. Might be cheaper to get some replacement washers and maybe one new wheel, even a CBN. Try the one new wheel only on it and see what happens. If much better than before you can get the second wheel. CBN's should run true and assuming the grinder has the power to use the heavier CBN wheel you will have spent less than a new setup. If the old grinder is still bad you have the new wheels and washers for the next grinder.

One tip. When you get a new grinder or wheel true it with the other wheel removed. Once true and running smoothly mark the shaft. washers, and wheel with a Sharpie marker and remove them. Then install the other wheel on the grinder and true it. Now you put the first wheel back on the grinder with all the marks aligned. Then a quick true again on both wheels and you will have a very smooth running grinder. The reason for doing them separately is to true it up without the other unbalanced wheel influencing the one you are working on.

I prefer an 8" grinder over a 6".

Pete

 

[beech1948]

I don't have much experience with grinders unlike some here but my approach was born out of pure rage and frustration. Grinder vibrated like a vibrating thing vibrating.

Solution was to remove both wheels and just run it with a dial gauge attached which baffled me because although there was some vibration it was not much.

Next step was to try to balance both wheels.....what a joke and so frustrating. Eventually took both wheels off, sanded both sides of each wheel on a flat surface, reattached and still vibreated. Removed one wheel and got that one in balance but wear on the wheel was extreme. Replaced second wheel and removed first and balanced. Then tried both wheels together and attempted to further balance them together.

Total effort was about 5 hours.

Final step was to throw away one wheel and buy a CBN type at 80 grit. Minimal vibration, very fast cutting, minimal heat. I will buy a second CBN when I have £100 available.

Overall issue is that I have a need for 4 grinder wheels all 8" and at the typical price of CBN it looks like £460 for wheels. That's too much by a long way so I will be thrown back on balancing my grit wheels probably. ughh!.

 

[GarF]

G I'm wondering if you ever tried the grinder without any wheels on it when you got it? If it ran smoothly then your issue would be with bad wheels, poorly made washers or both. Might be cheaper to get some replacement washers and maybe one new wheel, even a CBN. Try the one new wheel only on it and see what happens. If much better than before you can get the second wheel. CBN's should run true and assuming the grinder has the power to use the heavier CBN wheel you will have spent less than a new setup. If the old grinder is still bad you have the new wheels and washers for the next grinder.

One tip. When you get a new grinder or wheel true it with the other wheel removed. Once true and running smoothly mark the shaft. washers, and wheel with a Sharpie marker and remove them. Then install the other wheel on the grinder and true it. Now you put the first wheel back on the grinder with all the marks aligned. Then a quick true again on both wheels and you will have a very smooth running grinder. The reason for doing them separately is to true it up without the other unbalanced wheel influencing the one you are working on.

I prefer an 8" grinder over a 6".

Pete

All true. I don't recall exactly but given limited free time I think I balanced the wheels in the fewest number of steps possible, probably without going down to a bare spindle. I do recall a tedious process, and much frustration at the poor tolerance of the wheels. The only washers present are thick paper, plus the bits of cereal packet I added as shims. After my initial success I was happy enough because only certain tools would walk off the top of my bench rather than everything, plus susceptible items on the adjacent table. My real bugbear is the overall construction, for instance there is no means of gripping the spindle when tightening the retaining nuts- the solution I came up with was to grip the opposite stone with a ratchet clamp while tightening the nut. This makes it a bit of a challenge to refit one stone without altering the setting of the other one, but very good for exercising one's anglo Saxon vocab.

While I generally subscribe to the fixing what can be reasonably repaired approach, I don't want to sink much more valuable time into a cheaply engineered machine, what you might describe as putting lipstick on a pig if that makes sense.

 

[Sideways]

Oneway manufacturing have an accessory that attaches to your grinder to balance it. Might be worth a look. The toolpost in Didcot import oneway products.
I went with an 8" CBN wheel and after faffing around, ended up with a record bench grinder to drive it. I had very mixed experiences with Record power. The grinder had a problem, customer service were great handling the return, the muppet in the back reinstalled a wheel that I explicitly asked them to change so I binned it rather than have a wheel I'd had to hammer off explode in my face. I had some fun getting it just right as the weight of a CBN wheel means tiny manufacturing tolerances can be felt as vibration, but way better than a grit wheel and I got it very nice in the end. I'll buy another for the other end when I find a good deal.
Lastly, with a CBN wheel, I can't see what advantage there is in running it on a slow speed grinder. Many, I imagine most, people just fit them to standard 2800 rpm grinders and they work fine.

 

[Inspector]

All true. I don't recall exactly but given limited free time I think I balanced the wheels in the fewest number of steps possible, probably without going down to a bare spindle. I do recall a tedious process, and much frustration at the poor tolerance of the wheels. The only washers present are thick paper, plus the bits of cereal packet I added as shims. After my initial success I was happy enough because only certain tools would walk off the top of my bench rather than everything, plus susceptible items on the adjacent table. My real bugbear is the overall construction, for instance there is no means of gripping the spindle when tightening the retaining nuts- the solution I came up with was to grip the opposite stone with a ratchet clamp while tightening the nut. This makes it a bit of a challenge to refit one stone without altering the setting of the other one, but very good for exercising one's anglo Saxon vocab.

While I generally subscribe to the fixing what can be reasonably repaired approach, I don't want to sink much more valuable time into a cheaply engineered machine, what you might describe as putting lipstick on a pig if that makes sense.

When I say washer I am referring to the dished/cup washers the nut bears against. Also you do not need nor should you need to use a strap wrench to tighten the nut. Simply holding the wheel with your fingers and snugging the nut is enough. It will self tighten on its own because of the left and right hand threads. They don't need to be graunched to put them on.

Pete

 

[GarF]

I have to confess I would have no idea where to source replacement washers of that type from, short of asking the retailers customer services nicely.

To clarify, not a strap clamp, just a pistol grip type clamp to hold the sides of the opposite stone. Just frustrating to have nothing to grip (ie spanner flats somewhere accessible on the spindle) instead of the stone you've spent ages positioning just so only to have it slip out of alignment as you tighten the other one up. I'm sure this arrangement would be fine if predictably true and concentric wheels were available. Difficult to achieve much more than finger tight without losing alignment.

 

[gog64]

If you’re not wedded to the idea of a grinder, I’ll mention the Sorby Pro Edge as an alternative. Happily I was able to spend a couple of hours turning this afternoon (baby rattles!). I needed my roughing gouge, spindle gouge, parting tool and big skew chisel sharpened. Less than 10 minutes on the Sorby and that included putting on a new belt!

 

[Inspector]

They have them on your eBay and probably other sites too. Look for "bench grinder arbor washers". Ease of locating will in part be dependant on shaft size. Even if you do get a good grinder your old one will serve for sharpening lawn mower blades, shovel edges and any other grunt grinding you may need. And it is always handy it you have a friend or relative that borrows your stuff. (homer)

One more thing don't clamp across the sides of your wheel like you did as that's where you could start cracks that result in the wheel letting go. Like I said hold the wheel with your fingers and when you can't hold it from slipping that is enough. To get it off put a stick between the periphery and the guard or tool rest to hold the wheel. I've never seen a bench grinder with any kind of wrench provision including 10" wheel grinders.

Pete