global warming again

[jlawrence]

LOL @BSM.
Don't ask why, but when people talk of public sector workers I think many people just think of people sat behind desks pushing paper. I dare say that in reality people sat behind desks only form a small percentage of PS workers.

 

[Digit]

There are public sector workers and public sector workers.
I had to pay a visit to my local council HQ on Tuesday, where I spoke to two female workers, and two nicer and more helpful people it would be hard to find.

Roy.

 

[Tony Spear]

Same with rabbits.

OHmigawd, let's not go there! One slip with the knife when pouching rabbits in the field and back comes yesterday's dinner! (your's!):shock:

 

[devonwoody]

I'm back, had a good nights sleep.

I still reckon those multi millionaires contribute more to global warming than I do, and until they cut down their carbon emissions to the same quantity as mine, I'm sticking.

Thats why the Copenhagen conference the other week would not come to an agreement.

 

[RogerS]

I'm back, had a good nights sleep.

I still reckon those multi millionaires contribute more to global warming than I do, and until they cut down their carbon emissions to the same quantity as mine, I'm sticking.

Thats why the Copenhagen conference the other week would not come to an agreement.

dw, maybe your signature should be 'To **** in a handbasket' ? Frankly, your attitude sucks.

You are making so many value-judgements along the way that have little or no relevance. So somebody wishes to drive a car that isn't as economical as another one. Maybe the person who drives the more economical car has a higher carbon footprint in other ways. Whatever.

The simple fact is that if 1000 people make a small reduction then that has to be the better option for the planet and future generations. You have no way of knowing what mitigating effects your 'gas-guzzling' singleton has taken to compensate for his less-economical car.

 

[devonwoody]

The rich and very wealthy man next door to me gets prosecuted for fly tipping because that causes polution just the same as the lesser rich man.

The rich man therefore cannot pollute the planet with carbon emissions more than any other man.
That is what I am trying to say.

 

[RogerS]

](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

 

[MikeG.]

Devonwoody,

this is looking like serial trolling now, and if you continue with it I will be asking a moderator to lock this thread. Find something new to say, maybe even something interesting, and stop just trying to wind people up with poorly written and illogical posts.

Mike

 

[Dibs-h]

MikeG, jlawrence, BSM - thankfully the sentiment came across relatively correctly. Yes there are countless people in the public sector who go underpaid & under-appreciated - teachers being some of them. And I should know, I had some wonderful teachers, who are responsible for me being where I am. I did mean the paper schufflers. Yes there are some in the public sector, but they also exist in the private sector - I do see them from time to time, but I will try to refrain from stereotyping.

I think DevonWoody's account has been hacked and some nutter is posting. Failing that the snow has prevented the collection and fulfillment of a repeat prescriptionl. :wink:

 

[BMac]

I drive a huge, thirsty b@stard of a car but I produce less emissions than my daughter in her little, fuel-efficient car so, using devonwoody's logic, should I increase my daily mileage ten-fold to attain the 'average' emission rate?

Brendan

 

[wobblycogs]

Just spotted this thread, what a fascinating read so far. Anyway I'll try to avoid commenting directly suffice to say I was intrigued by some of the comments about the rich causing the trickle down of money. I'm not an economist but I read up a bit on a few of the ideas a couple of years ago.

There is an idea called trickle-down economics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics which essentially says if you cut tax for the rich money will flow to the poor as they spend more. It is generally considered not to work terribly well and to cause the rich to get richer with minimal benefit to the poor. The accepted reason for the failure of the idea is that as the rich get richer they don't consume proportionally more. The classic example of a country broadly following this model is America.

The UK typically follows something more akin to Keynesian Economics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics which is more of a combination of public and (mostly) private sector money. The idea here is that if the poor have money they will buy goods and services from business owners making them rich. Money therefore flows up rather than down.

 

[beech1948]

Oddly interesting.

To just take a different view to that of most of you. Teachers are apparently revered by most of you. Perhaps they are these days public servants of the worst PC kind.

I also wonder if the current statistics show that they are value for money.

That is 24% of pupils aged 12 can not read or write effectively and are basically illiterate.

Another 21% are so poor at math that they are innumerate.

So of the population of school kids around 24 to 45% are so poorly educated that many basic functions we look for in the developed world are impossible for them.

Is that success or failure. If its measurable as a failure then why are teachers so revered.

Alan

 

[beech1948]

oddly interesting.

Cars: My very desirable automobile is German and weights about 2.5 imperial tons. Its a 3.2 litre diesel.

On longer trips I get 46 mpg over say 200 miles
On medium trips I get 39 per gallon say 50 miles
Around the village I get 32 per gallon
Driving in London I get 19 per gallon...not been into London by car for 14 years.

Overall I am getting 37 miles per gallon over 10,000 miles. Annual mileage varies between 4000 pa if using train mostly and 14000 if using car mostly.

How does that compare with your vehicles.

I have no idea about how much C02 I make but I would guess that its at least as good as any other car and probably better. Ignition is set to fully burn all fuel and to achieve economy of fuel use.

I guess a Ford Ka will beat these figures as long as its not driven by a teenager impersonating Ayrton Senna.

Alan

 

[MikeG.]

That is 24% of pupils aged 12 can not read or write effectively and are basically illiterate.
Another 21% are so poor at math that they are innumerate.
So of the population of school kids around 24 to 45% are so poorly educated that many basic functions we look for in the developed world are impossible for them.

Firstly, back those figures up, please. "24% are illiterate" is an interesting allegation. Where have you got these figures?

Secondly, your 45% figure is obviously the 21% added to the 24%.........but it is inconceivable that none of the "illiterate" 24% are amongst the "innumerate". So, whilst it is theoretically possible that 45% could be either illiterate or inumerate from your figures, I suggest that it is most likely to be the same people, and the figure will be nowhere near 45%.

So, ask yourself who these failing students are, and why they are failing? Obviously, some will have special needs. Many pupils who would have previously been educated in special schools are now in mainstream. These kids are included in all figures, including SATS results, and there are lots of them.

Some of the rest will be at huge social disadvantage........their parents are probably seperated, may have drink or drugs problems, may only be 16 or 18 themselves, or may be in prison or working as prostitues. Many may not be able to speak English, or have parents who don't. Some will be physically or sexually abused. Many will never have seen their parents read, nor have access to a single book at home.

Some will come from a background where parents hold the school system in contempt, and will never hear a child read, attend parent evenings, or respond to correspondence from the school. Many parents don't ensure that their children attend school every day, and even take them shopping instead.

So, before you blame teachers for the poor performance of some of the pupils, please ask yourself whose fault it really is.

Mike

 

[devonwoody]

Thanks to those who posted, I can understand now how difficult it must have been to get agreement at Copenhagen.

I suspect there will be a fudge outcome eventually.

The last man on the planet please turn off the air conditioning.

 

[Digit]

Here's the official answer...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... eague.html

Roy.

 

[lurker]

Mike,

I really wish you would not get so uptight when someone raises an alternative point of view. DW opinions are as valuable as yours & I ( for one) DO see his point.
I might not agree but............

Regards tax : I believe it is a undesputed fact (but please feel free to correct me :lol: ) that poorer people DO PAY a larger proportion of their income as tax.

The thingy in Copenhagen was always going to be a waste of time and generated a needless carbon footprint.

 

[jlawrence]

I think teachers are held in high regard because it's a job that most of us could never ever envisage doing. To my mind teachers in the main must have unbelievable amounts of patience.

Looking at mine and swmbo's cars it's a good job I don't do many miles. Around town I average about 250miles on a tank which is roughly 15mpg, on a good run I might 'just' make it to the dizzy heights of 29mpg. SWMBO's RAV4 does about 20mpg around town - no idea what she gets on a run.
It is time to change the RAV4 but there's no way I can afford to change my Surf - equivalents are just two expensive.

 

[Smudger]

No, that's not 'official', that's a Daily Telegraph article. Politically biased and partial.

Those surveys are pretty well meaningless as they figures are collected differently from country to country and year to year. A lot of figures are partial. Some countries don't even bother (the UK didn't a few years ago).

You also have to try to understand what is meant. If 12% (say) of pupils fail to reach the 'expected' average or mean level, does that mean that they are illiterate (missed the target by 100%) or 'less literate' (missed the target by 5%)? What is the effect of the ability bell curve? Where is the 'expected' level placed on the bell curve - possibly stated as a percentile? Is it expressed as a mean or a median? If you can't answer these questions then you really haven't done enough research to pass judgement.

 

[Kalimna]

Reading this thread is like watching an intelligent group of people talking to a scientologist.

Depressing that an otherwise excellent forum descends into levels of logical ineptitude not normally found outside of IMDB's fora.

That said, I shall now go and carry on my early spring cleaning and chucking out of much accumulated carbon-producing, tax evading, earth destroying stuff. So if anyone wants any surgical/medical textbooks, please let me now

Cheers,
Adam