global warming again

[devonwoody]

global warming is taking place, I accept that, also it started when the last ice age started to come to its ending (20K years ago?)


Now my comment is this;

If we reduce carbon emissions by 50% (if) it only means that the carbon producing fuels are going to last longer, so that means we are also going to eventually use that 50% spare sometime in the future.

So you have not therefore reduced carbon emissions, you have only delayed there coming, you are going to produce them anyway later.

So if that is what will happen, are they trying to conserve those fossil fuels? and all that means?

 

[Russell]

Its a balance between how much CO2 we produce and how much the planet can process and remove from the atmosphere by Photosynthesis. If we hadnt destroyed vast amounts of forest across the world. The planet would have been able to cope with some of the increase in CO2. Most new research is looking into artificial photosynthesis and CO2 removal and deep storage technology.

 

[MikeG.]

global warming is taking place, I accept that, also it started when the last ice age started to come to its ending

Oh god, give me strength.......



OK, there is no god, and I'm pretty strong........but you get my drift.

Mike

 

[Russell]

In the seventies they said we had 20 years of oil left! I am sure there is only a finite amount of "economic fossil fuels" we can access on the planet. But there are lots including coal in England that are not so economic. Once we master the CO2 problem and develop alternative sources including nuclear for electricity fossil fuels will become less of an issue.

IMO we need to reduce our dependency on gas and oil because at the moment we are at the mercy of Russia and the middle east who control alot of what is used in Europe.

 

[devonwoody]

My angle is;

Cut fossil fuel use means it lasts longer, and I still think this is the hidden agenda.

I have seen landscapes where the water must have been 20 miles inland from now, so if water levels are rising it has happened before and perhaps fossils fuels were not the problem the last time. (I dont think it was plate drift that caused the water to recede)

 

[Smudger]

You have to try to hold several ideas at the same time.

First of all, separate weather and climate.

Then realise that long-term natural effects are cumulative with short-term man-made effects. That makes any sort of modelling difficult, and means that we should look at long-term trends rather than short-term phenomena.

There are several different mechanisms which change coastlines, and sea level rise is only one of them.

What do you mean by 'plate drift'? Plate Tectonics? How does that affect sea level change?

What do you mean by 'hidden agenda'? Whose agenda? If it is hidden, how come you know about it?
I thought we had all been trying to use less fossil fuels for at least the last 30 years, pretty publicly.

 

[devonwoody]

Hi. Dick.

Plate drift
yes Teutonics. the crust rises near a shoreline, would mean land covered in water becomes high and dry. (The south and east coast of Australia had water levels higher than they are today and a geologist friend of mine in Oz. said it was not Teutonics that was the cause of greater landmass that was dry)

Hidden agenda, I still think it would suit some section of the earth community to reduce comsumption of fossil fuel to make it last longer for their own benefit.

 

[Smudger]

First of all Plate Teutonics only applies to Germany...

Plate Tectonics does not necessarily mean that coastlines rise and fall - the plate boundaries are not at coastlines (usually). They lead to subduction (where one plate slides beneath another one) or collison, which leads to mountain ranges.

You need to read up on this. For example, Britain is gradually tipping over to one side as it slowly recovers from the down forces of the last glaciation. Part is rising, part is falling. You have to see all local effects in context.

As to the 'hidden agenda' - I still really don't get what you mean. What is the 'earth community' - surely that is all of us? If we make fossil fuels last longer that is for all our benefits, we have known that for decades. Or do you mean that there is some other organisation or force at work, other than economics?

 

[MikeG.]

yes Teutonics.Hidden agenda,

What? It's all the Germans' fault? I've not heard this one before.....

Devonwoody, you are getting so much wrong here that it might be worthwhile just withdrawing gracefully before you make a real fool of yourself.

Mike

 

[Smudger]

Nice quote from today's Guardian (not aimed at DW, just a general comment)

Deborah Orr in today's Grauniad:

Are Some People Really This Stupid?
I'm usually wary of calling people dowright stupid as well. But sometimes there is no other explanation. The Daily Express is clearly edited by a very stupid person, since he dedicated yesterday's front page to exulting that since it was quite remarkably cold, climate change couldn't exist. Come again? And loads of people, it seems are this loonily counter-intuitive. Why can't people understand that hotter air barrells about the atmosphere like a bull in a gigantic china shop? Or that melted ice in one place is just extra water looking for a new home in another? These are such simple concepts, so basic, so irrefutable, so plainly guaranteed to make the weather more unpredictable and extreme. Didn't these people go to school? Didn't they get physics? So many people cling on to their wilful ignorance, even persuading themselves that this makes them freethinking and clever. The idea seems to be that if you believe the obvious, you're a fool. That idea is not a good one.

 

[devonwoody]

hidden agenda again

There are people who are running around with Rolls Royces using 5 times more fuel than me, and they are still building this and other motor vehicles with similar fuel consumption, so why should I do less mileage.

There are others who have and are having 7 bedroom properties constructed and only two people in residence, so the cost of building and running of such properties still is continuing and they are using more than their fair share of fuels. So why should I worry about heating a two bedroom property and conserving energy.

Those high users will continue to have heavy consumption as will other nations and also up and coming industralised countries.

I dont think those people above will stop or reduce their consumption unless legislation is forced upon them, and it doesn't normally happen to that genre.

That is my meaning of hidden agenda.
.

 

[Smudger]

That's not what most people mean by a hidden agenda...

 

[devonwoody]

That's not what most people mean by a hidden agenda...

OK, dare I ask what .............., no I am not going to post that

A few days ago, hundreds of ministers from over one hundred countries (staff I am sure with higher IQ's than me) could not reach agreement because they know or have ideas that suggestions for a setup were not viable as set out.

 

[Smudger]

Right. First of all, Mike's advice was sound.

A hidden agenda is when a person or organisation says that they are doing something for a particular reason, but in fact they are doing it for another reason entirely, which they keep hidden from you. Hence, their real agenda is hidden.

As to your other point - I have no idea what it is.

Except that if you were to look at what actually happened it wasn't some mysterious inability to reach a conclusion, for reasons of their own the Chinese (followed by some others) would not agree to the majority line, and so a unanimous statement could not be made. It wasn't to do with viability (not sure what you mean by set up) it was to do with global politics.

 

[kasandrich]

hidden agenda again

There are people who are running around with Rolls Royces using 5 times more fuel than me, and they are still building this and other motor vehicles with similar fuel consumption, so why should I do less mileage.

There are others who have and are having 7 bedroom properties constructed and only two people in residence, so the cost of building and running of such properties still is continuing and they are using more than their fair share of fuels. So why should I worry about heating a two bedroom property and conserving energy.

Those high users will continue to have heavy consumption as will other nations and also up and coming industralised countries.

I dont think those people above will stop or reduce their consumption unless legislation is forced upon them, and it doesn't normally happen to that genre.

That is my meaning of hidden agenda.
.

The point you are missing here, is there are at least a thousand of you to everry one in a 7 bed house with a Roller. Therefore if a thousand woody's all reduced their carbon emmissions things may improve, however if the guy with the roller got a more modest car and a 2 bed house, the over all impact would be minimal. So he can continue his oppulent lifestyle as long as we all cut our emmissions :roll:

 

[Racers]

Hi,

How about the thousand of tons of CO2 that come out of volcanos every day? that never seens to get mentioned, they do include the methane from cows, so its vegie burgers for you all (I don't eat them- can't stand burgers)

Pete

 

[devonwoody]

Kasandrich, you have got the grift of what I think.

My opinion is that global warming will take place anyway,might be slower if the righteous conserve but will be offset by the greedy and rich.

 

[BMac]

Plug the volcanoes with cows.

There, I've just saved the World. I hope you all appreciate it!

Brendan

 

[Smudger]

Kasandrich, you have got the grift of what I think.

My opinion is that global warming will take place anyway,might be slower if the righteous conserve but will be offset by the greedy and rich.

I think that he was making the opposite point. That it doesn't make sense for the few Roller-rollers to get smaller cars, the masses have to take action...

I still think Mike was right.

 

[devonwoody]

He might be right but I still think the biggest users have got to bring their consumption down to make me feel be prepared to do my bit.

I'm not worried anyway, better for me if they shut off my fuel allowance at twenty years from now. :wink: