Humf
Established Member
Hi all
I'm starting this thread to document my work on this new garden room build and hopefully get some pointers from far more experienced readers! A couple of times now I've asked questions on other threads, so thought it was time to start my own.
Disclaimer: this project will be very much DIY... I have no building quals and work in a completely unrelated profession so learning all the time. Plus, such as life, my time will be limited so this build is likely to evolve over quite a few months. Planning has already been months... if not years.
Aim
Approx 2 years ago I built a small non-insulated shed as a trial run - 2.4m x 2.4m, apex felted roof, featherboard cladding - it went well. I used 4 equal sized framed panels, 16" centres and double top plates binding the wall panels together. I've created a very solid building that I now wish to replicate but on a larger scale.
I'm not short of garden space, so the plan is to build a 9.6m x 3.6m wooden framed building, apex tiled roof and insulated. It will initially need to be a flexible space as we are having some substantial building work done on the main house and need a separate area to escape to when things get really disruptive.
Planning
As far as planning goes, I've been in touch with the local planning dept. and they advise that permission will be required as we sit within Article 2(3) land and the building will sit over 20m from the main dwelling. This is actually not an entirely bad thing, as I now feel at liberty to design it to my desired size/height and make the most of the land available. There has also been a precedent set by several similar buildings in neighbouring gardens. A local arch' tech has offered to create the drawings and process the application. Although this comes at a cost, I'll be glad of his support and I will definitely need help with the roof design.
Work process
I'm aiming to do as much of the work as possible myself but not yet ruled out the option of getting some help. e.g. there is already an armoured cable running to the site from the main house, as this provided the previous garden shed with power (installed by the previous owner with electricians certs provided). I'll use an electrician to complete all electrical work. I don't currently aim to have any other services running to/from the building, although I could easily be persuaded otherwise!
There are some tasks that I know will be a stetch e.g. roof tiling, doors and windows. So i can imagine drafting in help for certain parts of the build, if possible.
Plan
First off - I'm not getting on well with SketchUp in the slightest! Can't fathom it whatsoever. I have many drawings on paper and will try to upload some once neat enough for public viewing.
Onto the plan... because I lack any great skills or time (plus £ is always an important factor) I am keen to minimise cutting of sheet materials, timber and overall any waste. I notice Robin Clevett mentions the use of 450mm centres for framing, giving 3 equal cuts to 1200mm PIR i.e. 400mm panels of PIR with tape or foam to make up. 25mm each side being taken up by half a stud. He also mentions using 2700mm sheet materials (OSB) to accommodate 6 equal stud spacings. This sounds great in theory, but the 2700 OSB seems much more difficult to source and I'm reluctant to introduce any barriers that prevent obtaining good value timber. So taking this concept a little further, I realise 450mm goes into 3600mm equally by 8. So panels of 3.6m width seems a good solution.
Whilst this takes care neatly of the PIR, there is then the issue of sheet materials being mainly sold imperial (2440 x 1220). However, I figured that if I go for 9mm external OSB sheeting, this is readily available in metric size of 2400 x 1200. I'm likely to use both an external and internal skin of OSB so the smaller thickness seems acceptable? Therefore a wall panel of 3600mm width and 2400mm height would be covered economically by 2 horizontal sheets and 1 vertical i.e. total width of panel = 2400 + 1200, total height of panel = 1200 + 1200 or 2400.
All excellent... except... 3.6m x 2 gives a building of 7.2m - too small, 3.6m x 3 gives a building of 10.8m - just a fraction too big.
So my current plan is to use:
I will keep to 450mm centres on the 2.4m panels and just reduce the final stud spacing to accommodate.
My current thinking is to build studs using 4x2 timbers. I need help with roof design but would expect 6x2 rafters and ridge beam.
Groundworks and foundations
The area is not easily accessible by vehicle, being quite some distance from the road. The site is on a gentle sloping gradient, falling on the shorter sides by approx. 400mm.
The ground is very rocky with the area historically being quarried for limestone. I'm therefore not inclined to use a concrete base and instead use piers of some sort. Following on from some discussion on another thread about suitability of concrete blocks and appropriate depth of footings, I have since dug a couple of trial holes to investigate the ground conditions. The top layer is approx 15-20cm of softer stony ground and below that you hit rock (see first pic). Limestone being the way it is, the rocks are large pieces compressed together around smaller pieces and grit (see second pic) but there is another section of the garden where I've gone deep enough to hit pure limestone strata.
Given the ground conditions, I don't believe a great depth of footing to be necessary. Instead I plan to excavate the top 200mm of softer ground and use hollow dense concrete blocks sat either on a bed of compacted MOT type 1 OR concrete. I'm thinking 2 blocks for the higher ground piers and 4 stacked blocks for the lower ground. These can potentially be filled with concrete and rebar driven through the hollows into the rock below.
I have quite a few of these blocks left over from a retaining wall that was built (professionally) so it does make sense to put them to use.
Using the general rule of footings being at least twice the width of the block, I propose digging these footings 880mm x 880mm, which would then accommodate two blocks side by side, measuring 440mm x 440mm.
I have no idea how deep I'd get the rebar... the ground below the 200mm is seriously hard.. and I don't know how much use the rebar would be? I could also tie together the blocks together using some sort of metal ties, although I think the pre-cast grooves are on the shorter ends not width, so don't know how that would work.
Next steps
Most importantly, I need to get the plans drawn up and submitted to the planning dept.
If I feel confident enough, in the meantime I'll put some hand drawn ones on here so anyone can tell me I'm way off track or doing ok.
Block piers ... I'm seriously quite stuck on the spacing of these. I've looked at the span tables and if 6x2 C16 timber is used for bearers and floor joists at 450mm centres, then I think spans of 3006mm are permissible for buildings of less than 0.25kN/m2. However, I notice on Molynoox's build (which is a similar size of 9m x 3.7m) the groundscrew company were wanting spans of 1.5m but this was doubled up 4x2... my head is in a bit of a spin about how to go about designing this raft and piers... any help would be massively appreciated. I'm guessing some idea of the loading would be helpful! I'm very much hoping for fibre cement tiles which I know adds weight...
Final request - please don't tell me to go out and buy a ready-made. I just can't stomach them and if this takes me many, many years, then so be it!
I'm starting this thread to document my work on this new garden room build and hopefully get some pointers from far more experienced readers! A couple of times now I've asked questions on other threads, so thought it was time to start my own.
Disclaimer: this project will be very much DIY... I have no building quals and work in a completely unrelated profession so learning all the time. Plus, such as life, my time will be limited so this build is likely to evolve over quite a few months. Planning has already been months... if not years.
Aim
Approx 2 years ago I built a small non-insulated shed as a trial run - 2.4m x 2.4m, apex felted roof, featherboard cladding - it went well. I used 4 equal sized framed panels, 16" centres and double top plates binding the wall panels together. I've created a very solid building that I now wish to replicate but on a larger scale.
I'm not short of garden space, so the plan is to build a 9.6m x 3.6m wooden framed building, apex tiled roof and insulated. It will initially need to be a flexible space as we are having some substantial building work done on the main house and need a separate area to escape to when things get really disruptive.
Planning
As far as planning goes, I've been in touch with the local planning dept. and they advise that permission will be required as we sit within Article 2(3) land and the building will sit over 20m from the main dwelling. This is actually not an entirely bad thing, as I now feel at liberty to design it to my desired size/height and make the most of the land available. There has also been a precedent set by several similar buildings in neighbouring gardens. A local arch' tech has offered to create the drawings and process the application. Although this comes at a cost, I'll be glad of his support and I will definitely need help with the roof design.
Work process
I'm aiming to do as much of the work as possible myself but not yet ruled out the option of getting some help. e.g. there is already an armoured cable running to the site from the main house, as this provided the previous garden shed with power (installed by the previous owner with electricians certs provided). I'll use an electrician to complete all electrical work. I don't currently aim to have any other services running to/from the building, although I could easily be persuaded otherwise!
There are some tasks that I know will be a stetch e.g. roof tiling, doors and windows. So i can imagine drafting in help for certain parts of the build, if possible.
Plan
First off - I'm not getting on well with SketchUp in the slightest! Can't fathom it whatsoever. I have many drawings on paper and will try to upload some once neat enough for public viewing.
Onto the plan... because I lack any great skills or time (plus £ is always an important factor) I am keen to minimise cutting of sheet materials, timber and overall any waste. I notice Robin Clevett mentions the use of 450mm centres for framing, giving 3 equal cuts to 1200mm PIR i.e. 400mm panels of PIR with tape or foam to make up. 25mm each side being taken up by half a stud. He also mentions using 2700mm sheet materials (OSB) to accommodate 6 equal stud spacings. This sounds great in theory, but the 2700 OSB seems much more difficult to source and I'm reluctant to introduce any barriers that prevent obtaining good value timber. So taking this concept a little further, I realise 450mm goes into 3600mm equally by 8. So panels of 3.6m width seems a good solution.
Whilst this takes care neatly of the PIR, there is then the issue of sheet materials being mainly sold imperial (2440 x 1220). However, I figured that if I go for 9mm external OSB sheeting, this is readily available in metric size of 2400 x 1200. I'm likely to use both an external and internal skin of OSB so the smaller thickness seems acceptable? Therefore a wall panel of 3600mm width and 2400mm height would be covered economically by 2 horizontal sheets and 1 vertical i.e. total width of panel = 2400 + 1200, total height of panel = 1200 + 1200 or 2400.
All excellent... except... 3.6m x 2 gives a building of 7.2m - too small, 3.6m x 3 gives a building of 10.8m - just a fraction too big.
So my current plan is to use:
- Long walls - 2 panels of 3.6m plus 1 panel of 2.4m
- Short walls - 1 panel of 3.6m
I will keep to 450mm centres on the 2.4m panels and just reduce the final stud spacing to accommodate.
My current thinking is to build studs using 4x2 timbers. I need help with roof design but would expect 6x2 rafters and ridge beam.
Groundworks and foundations
The area is not easily accessible by vehicle, being quite some distance from the road. The site is on a gentle sloping gradient, falling on the shorter sides by approx. 400mm.
The ground is very rocky with the area historically being quarried for limestone. I'm therefore not inclined to use a concrete base and instead use piers of some sort. Following on from some discussion on another thread about suitability of concrete blocks and appropriate depth of footings, I have since dug a couple of trial holes to investigate the ground conditions. The top layer is approx 15-20cm of softer stony ground and below that you hit rock (see first pic). Limestone being the way it is, the rocks are large pieces compressed together around smaller pieces and grit (see second pic) but there is another section of the garden where I've gone deep enough to hit pure limestone strata.
Given the ground conditions, I don't believe a great depth of footing to be necessary. Instead I plan to excavate the top 200mm of softer ground and use hollow dense concrete blocks sat either on a bed of compacted MOT type 1 OR concrete. I'm thinking 2 blocks for the higher ground piers and 4 stacked blocks for the lower ground. These can potentially be filled with concrete and rebar driven through the hollows into the rock below.
I have quite a few of these blocks left over from a retaining wall that was built (professionally) so it does make sense to put them to use.
Using the general rule of footings being at least twice the width of the block, I propose digging these footings 880mm x 880mm, which would then accommodate two blocks side by side, measuring 440mm x 440mm.
I have no idea how deep I'd get the rebar... the ground below the 200mm is seriously hard.. and I don't know how much use the rebar would be? I could also tie together the blocks together using some sort of metal ties, although I think the pre-cast grooves are on the shorter ends not width, so don't know how that would work.
Next steps
Most importantly, I need to get the plans drawn up and submitted to the planning dept.
If I feel confident enough, in the meantime I'll put some hand drawn ones on here so anyone can tell me I'm way off track or doing ok.
Block piers ... I'm seriously quite stuck on the spacing of these. I've looked at the span tables and if 6x2 C16 timber is used for bearers and floor joists at 450mm centres, then I think spans of 3006mm are permissible for buildings of less than 0.25kN/m2. However, I notice on Molynoox's build (which is a similar size of 9m x 3.7m) the groundscrew company were wanting spans of 1.5m but this was doubled up 4x2... my head is in a bit of a spin about how to go about designing this raft and piers... any help would be massively appreciated. I'm guessing some idea of the loading would be helpful! I'm very much hoping for fibre cement tiles which I know adds weight...
Final request - please don't tell me to go out and buy a ready-made. I just can't stomach them and if this takes me many, many years, then so be it!
might be better to hedge your bets and have more piers and thinner timber.
