Frog adjustment problem

[D_W]

It's just cast. You could file it (the frog) if you have a decent file.

If you're not comfortable with that (which is a perfectly reasonable thing to be - not comfortable with filing a bunch of material off of a tool part), then that's a different thing.

This isn't exclusive to later planes. I've had several pre-WWII planes that had something out of whack (be it the iron slot, or a frog that isn't machined properly, etc) that required the adjuster to be almost out of travel for the iron to sit straight. It makes no difference in use, but it's really annoying because the adjuster isn't where you want it to be. Both visually, and habitually by location where you put your fingers.

It makes the plane look like a truck or tractor with the exhaust stack bent over.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

It might be worth trying to pack a few shims between the frog and sole castings on the 'low' side (the side on which the blade protrudes further) to see if this levels things up. You might need to try several times, adjusting shim thicknesses. Thin cardboard, writing paper or even several layers of aluminium foil would serve.

If that works, it would indicate how much needs filing off the 'high' side of the frog seatings to bring things level permanently.

 

[stefan]

Remove the frog adjuster plate.
Will the frog now align with the mouth?
I've seen this adjuster plate so badly fitted as to prevent any proper frog - mouth fitting.

I loosened the adjuster plate so it did not hinder the adjustment of the frog, but that does not seem to solve the problem. The frog is aligned horizontally to the mouth, but vertically it is skewed.

 

[stefan]

This isn't exclusive to later planes. I've had several pre-WWII planes that had something out of whack (be it the iron slot, or a frog that isn't machined properly, etc) that required the adjuster to be almost out of travel for the iron to sit straight. It makes no difference in use, but it's really annoying because the adjuster isn't where you want it to be. Both visually, and habitually by location where you put your fingers.

It makes the plane look like a truck or tractor with the exhaust stack bent over.

Thanks, that makes it more likely that it not just me being to stupid to adjust it correctly. ;-) And yes, even though I can get it to work fine, it is really a thorn in my side - as you said: annoying.

I guess I will try to carefully file it.

 

[stefan]

It might be worth trying to pack a few shims between the frog and sole castings on the 'low' side (the side on which the blade protrudes further) to see if this levels things up. You might need to try several times, adjusting shim thicknesses. Thin cardboard, writing paper or even several layers of aluminium foil would serve.

If that works, it would indicate how much needs filing off the 'high' side of the frog seatings to bring things level permanently.

Thank you for this suggestion! I don't know why I did not think of it myself.

 

[whiskywill]

There is a rude expression that " you can't polish a t----".

Trout?
Tulip?

 

[David C]

Going back to the earlier photos, there seems something very suspect about the filing of the frog contact areas. Who did this filing and why?

It seems very uneven, and the result is a frog surface which is twisted laterally to the sole. Azimuth error.

This can often be cured by twisting the frog (when viewed from the top, as it is fixed). There is usually a unique frog twist position which allows a balanced shaving to line up with the front of throat.

( In fixed bed planes it may transpire that the mouth is uneven, and this may be cured by careful filing of the front of the throat).

David Charlesworth

 

[stefan]

OK, I worked up my courage to file the frog and it came out very good! ;-)

First I put some washers under the contact areas of the frog on one side to find out how much the difference is.

I installed everything with the washers in place and it worked nicely on the first try. I could leave the lateral adjustment lever in the middle and get even shavings.
I measured the thickness of the washers (1 mm) and made marks on the side of the frog accordingly with a knife and a calliper. The I filed it down to the marks and tried to get it as flat as possible (and everything in the same plane). I had to sand the upper part on a granite tile, because I was not able to get it flat with the file. I test-fitted it occasionally.

After I could feel no more wobble, I put everything back together and: ta-da! It fits great and I can leave the lever almost exactly in the middle. I am much happier now. ;-)

Thanks again for all of the suggestions!

 

[bugbear]

I installed everything with the washers in place and it worked nicely on the first try. I could leave the lateral adjustment lever in the middle and get even shavings.
I measured the thickness of the washers (1 mm) and made marks on the side of the frog accordingly with a knife and a calliper. The I filed it down to the marks and tried to get it as flat as possible (and everything in the same plane). I had to sand the upper part on a granite tile, because I was not able to get it flat with the file. I test-fitted it occasionally.

After I could feel no more wobble, I put everything back together and: ta-da! It fits great and I can leave the lever almost exactly in the middle. I am much happier now. ;-)

Exemplary.

=D> =D> =D> =D>
=D> =D> =D> =D>
=D> =D> =D> =D>
=D> =D> =D> =D>

BugBear

 

[Bod]

Well done!

Bod

 

[stefan]

Exemplary.

=D> =D> =D> =D>
=D> =D> =D> =D>
=D> =D> =D> =D>
=D> =D> =D> =D>

BugBear

Do I sense a little bit of irony here? ;-) I did not want to boast about my accomplishment, in case it made that impression. I just wanted to document what I did in the end. Maybe it helps somebody sometime who stumbles over this thread in the future.
Thanks for the applause anyway! ;-)

 

[bugbear]

Exemplary.

=D> =D> =D> =D>
=D> =D> =D> =D>
=D> =D> =D> =D>
=D> =D> =D> =D>

BugBear

Do I sense a little bit of irony here? ;-) I did not want to boast about my accomplishment, in case it made that impression. I just wanted to document what I did in the end. Maybe it helps somebody sometime who stumbles over this thread in the future.
Thanks for the applause anyway! ;-)

No irony intended; you described your problem clearly and accurately, people with knowledge diagnosed the cause, you corrected the cause using the information supplied, and fixed the symptom.

I stand by "Exemplary" as a description, and the applause.

BugBear

 

[David C]

I agree. It takes some nerve to file those frog seating surfaces.

Great outcome!

David C