Flush vice or not?

[thomashenry]

My take on the flush/non flush debate - it doesn't really matter.

 

[Nigel Burden]

I only have a small bench in my 6ft x 8ft shed. It has two vices mounted either end, not flush, but I have a packing piece which I can screw onto the face between the two vices if I wish, which then makes it flush.

Nigel.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My take on the flush/non flush debate - it doesn't really matter.

Not if you inherit, buy cheaply, find in a skip or are given a bench. but it does if you're building it from scratch to suit yourself.

 

[AndyT]

My take on the flush/non flush debate - it doesn't really matter.

Not if you inherit, buy cheaply, find in a skip or are given a bench. but it does if you're building it from scratch to suit yourself.

Yes, if you build a bench, you do have to decide, even if you think both answers are equally good.

And then when you cut dovetails, you have to decide whether to cut pins or tails first - you can't do both.

 

[thetyreman]

I think the reason for it being non flush is so that you don't trap your fingers and can get your hand around the back of the wood, I've got used to it being not flush and can honestly say it's not a problem.

 

[thomashenry]

My take on the flush/non flush debate - it doesn't really matter.

Not if you inherit, buy cheaply, find in a skip or are given a bench. but it does if you're building it from scratch to suit yourself.

I really don't think so. If you have a flush one, you can make it non flush in 2 mins by screwing on some wood to the apron. If you have a non flush one, you can use bench hooks as described above.

Whichever you choose, it won't be a problem. It's one of those things I think people worry about far too much.

 

[David Martin]

And then when you cut dovetails, you have to decide whether to cut pins or tails first - you can't do both.

I'm not ready to declare my position on the pins vs tails first question yet. It's a big thing when one is trying to fit into a new community and I'm not yet ready to alienate a proportion of people :wink:

 

[That would work]

Pins first? That's just a silly rumour :lol:

 

[cookiemonster]

Non-flush for me a la Paul Sellers.

To plane a long board, put one end in the vice and f-clamp the other end to the apron with a spacer in between. Obviously make the spacer the same depth as the gap between the inside jaw and the apron. Simples.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

and unnecessarys.

 

[transatlantic]

If you have a flush vice and a long piece, arn't you unnecessarily clamping surfaces of the workpiece to your bench that could potentially get marked?

Where as a vice that sticks out a bit and with leather faces and a dog further down the bench to support the work piece reduces this?

I can see pros and cons for both styles really.

 

[Sideways]

Whichever way you go, take a look here and see Tim Wilmots ideas for clamping and supporting work against the front of his bench. So many good ideas that can be adapted to different benches with or without a vace, flush or not.
https://benchworks.be/en/my-projects/system-workshop/
I especially like the little adjustable shelf that he hooks on to support the bottom edge of some workpieces.

 

[MikeG.]

Non-flush for me a la Paul Sellers.

To plane a long board, put one end in the vice and f-clamp the other end to the apron with a spacer in between. Obviously make the spacer the same depth as the gap between the inside jaw and the apron. Simples.

Flip the board over to do the other edge. Find a long piece of batten to fetch the spacer out from under the bench where it fell. Use your third arm to hold the spacer whilst putting the clamp in position. Do this twenty times and come back and say "simples"..... :lol:

Seriously, I'm not trying to persuade anyone or tell them they're doing it wrong. Do it any way that makes you happy. But for me, I want simplicity, and faffing with spacers is not simple enough to suit my purposes.

 

[TheTiddles]

My thoughts exactly. The vintage record vices (52 1/2 and 53) seem to be the 'gold standard', but they're somewhat hard to come by these days.

I hear this one a lot, but having just tidied up an old record vice, I can see almost no difference between it and a new one or even a new unbranded clone, they were rough then, they are rough now, it’s a vice for holding rough things. If you want a super accurate vice, get a machine vice for a milling centre, it won’t work very well for you but it will be beautiful quality. Otherwise if it holds your work, then it’s probably good enough. I wouldn’t get too drawn onto quality of steel used etc, there’s so little in it and so much variation in process that’s more important.

Aidan

 

[Jon C]

My thoughts exactly. The vintage record vices (52 1/2 and 53) seem to be the 'gold standard', but they're somewhat hard to come by these days.

I hear this one a lot, but having just tidied up an old record vice, I can see almost no difference between it and a new one or even a new unbranded clone, they were rough then, they are rough now, it’s a vice for holding rough things. If you want a super accurate vice, get a machine vice for a milling centre, it won’t work very well for you but it will be beautiful quality. Otherwise if it holds your work, then it’s probably good enough. I wouldn’t get too drawn onto quality of steel used etc, there’s so little in it and so much variation in process that’s more important.

Aidan

In my experience, I’d agree. I’ve got/had quite a few vices ranging from older records (no model number, just patent number), newer records, brand new record/Irwin and never noticed any difference (apart from the visual appearance). They all toe in and held the workpiece fine.
On my home workbench, I use a brand new vice (Axminster trade non qr). It’s the same as all the others, holds fine.

Admittedly, the old ones do look better. If that’s important

 

[Jon C]

Forgot to say, on my home and work place bench aren’t flush mounted. I didn’t want (laziness) to spend the extra time flush mounting.
The issue (as mentioned) with planing the edges of longer thin pieces is definitely worth taking into consideration.

I’ll probably flush mount them at some point. On my old bench I had a diy leg vice, all flush mounted and it was nicer to have all the bench top edge acting as additional support

 

[David Martin]

After looking at many used old Record and similar vices online (and frowning at the shipping costs), I decided to buy new rather than risk getting something that might have 'historic' problems. I'm a woodworker after all and although a bit of metalwork isn't beyond me I prefer not to get greasy hands

In the end I went for an Eclipse 9" quick release (EWWQR9) model from Toolstop (for £90 including delivery). It features in Paul Sellers workbench build and he gives it a good review in his blog post on vices. Hopefully it'll arrive in a day or 2. I just have to decide on a tail vice now and that's workholding pretty much sorted.

I also took delivery of the timber today and spent an hour chopping the 4.5m lengths to rough dimensions for the leg frames and laminated top. I think I need more glue and clamps (but that goes without saying :lol: ).

Thanks again to all of those who have posted with advice!