Fixing wall units to a 'stone' wall.

[pren]

Hi all.

I've just been to look at a job in a really old cottage. The walls are made of stone (ie: boulders mortared in place - not sure what the actual term is ) and are covered in about an inch of plaster. The walls are pretty far out of plumb.

What's the best way to fix kitchen wall units to these walls? The client has said that the plaster/render is very sound and they've hung things from it before.

I was thinking of grip-filling and screwing batons to the wall at the top and hang the units from these so the top is plumb with the bottom, if that makes any sense?

Plan B invloved using grip-fill/sticks like sh*t and screws to fix a peice of 18mm ply the same size as the wall units to the wall. Shims/batons can be fixed to this to bring the units in line. My thinking being that this would spread the load over a greater area than just at the baton.

Any thoughts? :-k

 

[jasonB]

Whenever I have to hang units from a dodgy wall be it studwork, wattle & daub, rubble stone. I use the continuous lengths af hanging profile as this allows a lot more flexibility when it comes to positioning the fixings.

I would not fix just into the plaster/render. Get a decent SDS+ drill and put some fixings into the stone.

Jason

 

[rileytoolworks]

I would not fix just into the plaster/render. Get a decent SDS+ drill and put some fixings into the stone.

Jason

+1

Adam.

 

[9fingers]

I'd also make sure that thre is adequate ventilation behind the units.
Stone walled buildings need to breathe to prevent damp causing problems.

Bob

 

[jimi43]

I know EXACTLY what you are going through made...my old cottage is made of ironstone...nightmare!

The breathing bit is very worth considering. The stones in my walls are virtually dry laid with pointing made of mortar and ironstone chippings.

I have tried drilling but it is hard going...most wiring goes through channels chiselled out of the bits in between and then guided through with a wire leader!

Jim

 

[pren]

Cheers for all that.

Jason: when you say 'hanging profile' do you mean the piece that is fixed to the wall and on which the cabinet brackets hang? Presumably a continuous length would also help keep all the wall units in line. Do you happen to have a link to a supplier? Google isn't proving too handy with this.

I'd say the wall (which is approx 3m high) leans out away from the room at the top by a good 50mm! Is this something that can be taken up with the adjustable hanging brackets? I've not used them before.

I do have an SDS drill but i've not tried drilling into rock before. Any tips? I do feel more comfortable mechanically fixing the units rather than relying on goo.

 

[jasonB]

Woodfit & Isaac lord (I think) keep the rail. You will no doubt have to shim it out so it is straight.

If the kitchen is off the shelf then 50mm may be too much to cover with the decorative side panels, you may have to use base unit ones. Its easier the way you have it with teh top hanging out but you will still have to shim the botton for the cabinet to rest against, batten will be OK here and as its being pushed against the wall you may get away with gripfil etc.

A lot depends on what sort of stone it is, a SDS may be a bit light, you probably want a 3-5kg machine. Don't just hope gripfill will hold the units, they weigh enough empty let alone with a few dinner services and 50 tins of beans in them.

Jason

 

[pren]

Thanks for that, jason. Much appreciated.

 

[zeppfly]

this is a very common problem here in the west of ireland. the best sollution i have found is, where possible, to to rip a sheet of wbp plywood to the height of the units, usualy 570 or 715, and fix this to wall first. to level we use a mixture of bonding and cement plastered onto the wall in blobs, pull the board level with suitable anchors, wait an hour then give the anchors a final pull home. the mixture is not an adhesive, though it will have some grip, it is merely a leveling compound.
remember gripfill,like beauty, is only skin deep.
hope this helps
graeme

 

[Eric The Viking]

On the anchors themselves: try two part polyester resin and 8mm studding (in 10 or 12mm holes). If you can get a diamond drill that size it would be worth it, as you'll get cleaner holes, but good quality SDS should be fine. We use it in caving for rock anchors, and I've trusted my life to them on many occasions. It has a huge advantage over expanding fixings in that it places no unnecessary splitting forces on the stone. Since you can't see the stone in the wall, you don't know if you're close to an edge, but within reason you can use polyester to fix into cracked material as it will hold cracks together well. Toolstation keep it (as do many other suppliers).

If you use it, a couple of tips: you have to be quick - it sets in less than three minutes. Clean-up afterwards is near impossible, so have lots of rag/workshop cleaning paper handy to wipe off excess. If you put a flat washer and nut over the stud (at the point on the thread where you want it to meet the surface), when the glue is wet it makes a neat surface finish, and it's wise to masking tape the exposed threads. Buy several more nozzles than you think you'll need, as they go solid very fast and can't be cleaned. Almost forgot: you have to clean dust from the holes as well as you can, as that does affect fixing strength, although water doesn't.

HTH...

 

[pren]

Erik, Graeme: thankyou for all that great advice!

I think it will be easier to level up a peice of WBP first and fix the units to that. I'll go have a look for that polyester resin now!

On the subject of leveling behind the board, I seem to remember someone posting on here a while ago about using expanding foam to level chipboard on a floor. I think the method was to drill a small hole in the sheet over a depression in the substrate and squirt some EF into it. If I do this with the WBP and use the anchors to pull it into plumb (or shim the board plumb and level and use the EF afterwards?). Thinking on it, if the WBP is shimmed and anchored, I probably won't need any expandy foam, will I. :-k

.... sorry. Thinking out loud again :lol:

 

[pren]

Aaaaagh!!! WHY WOULD ANYONE BUILD A HOUSE OUT OF ******* ROCKS?!!! :evil:


Something about that wall turned my SDS into some sort of mortar divining rod! When I did find a rock - the sodding drill bit just wanted to wander off along its contours! 3hrs just to fix and shim a strip of ply to the wall!!!

On the bright side, when I did hit a flat(ish) chunk of rock my SDS drilled into it surprisingly easily.




I need a drink. :roll: :lol:

 

[jimi43]

Welcome to Bedrock!



Jim

 

[zeppfly]

what are we like, we worry about a job all week , then 3 hours later and its done.

 

[Simon Bagley]

Whenever I have to hang units from a dodgy wall be it studwork, wattle & daub, rubble stone. I use the continuous lengths af hanging profile as this allows a lot more flexibility when it comes to positioning the fixings.

I would not fix just into the plaster/render. Get a decent SDS+ drill and put some fixings into the stone.

Jason

Can you pleas explain what hanging profile is?

 

[Doug71]

14 year old thread brought back to life!

I presume they meant this stuff

https://www.sdslondon.co.uk/cabinet...5otNsCoT7HlH9PhX3G3A3Jmu974WsaMUaAvfOEALw_wcB

 

[Fergie 307]

The old fashioned way is to fix a 2x1 batten to the wall with the top edge cut at about 30°, narrower face to the wall. An identical one on the cabinet. Then hang the cabinet and the two strips hook together. Very simple and will hold a lot of weight.

 

[trvlr]

perhaps also known as a French Cleat?

 

[curryjunkie]

Cheers for all that.

Jason: when you say 'hanging profile' do you mean the piece that is fixed to the wall and on which the cabinet brackets hang? Presumably a continuous length would also help keep all the wall units in line. Do you happen to have a link to a supplier? Google isn't proving too handy with this.

I'd say the wall (which is approx 3m high) leans out away from the room at the top by a good 50mm! Is this something that can be taken up with the adjustable hanging brackets? I've not used them before.

I do have an SDS drill but i've not tried drilling into rock before. Any tips? I do feel more comfortable mechanically fixing the units rather than relying on goo.

sds will go right into stone walls, i do it all the time, then use a regular rawplug, if your bit wanders, use a small diameter masonry bit first to put a dimple into the stone ,it knackers the bit but stops the sds bouncing at the beginning.