Fitting Ogee Skirting

[MattR]

I've watcehd several Youtube videos, and read a few websites, so I get the theory

So now comes the practical.

The room in question has a Chimney breast, so I need to handle internal and external mitres.

For internal corners, I've been practising on some sacrificial bits of skirting, and I am getting better. Are there any tips or hints anyone can offer with respect to scribing the skirting to fit correctly, or is it just a case of practice, practice and pore practice to be able to cut accurately and snugly with a coping saw? (Occasionally mine twists as I am using it to cut in a straight line. I assume that this is simply down to my technique ?)

Outer Mitres should in theory be easy, except... The outer corners of the chimney breast are curved corners. All I can think of doing here is to do a series of small angled mitres, and isntead of having a right angle round the chimney breast, it will be part of a hexagon or octagon. Is this how you would approach this, or is there a better way of doing it?

The long walls are longer than the biggest lengths I can buy, so I'll need to join 2 pieces of skirting. I assume that the best way of doing this is with a 45 degree mitre?

And lastly, can anyone recommend a company (I am in Gloucestershire if that matters) that I can get a lot of Ogee Skirtign from? The practice bits I have got from B&Q are awful, so I am wary of ordering a big delivery from them, in case I need to then send half of it back.

I have a few more questions, but I want to get the big picture of how it all goes together in my head, then hopefully the answers to the other questions will become apparent.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

One of my local merchants lists 5.1 metre ogee skirting. Not long enough?

 

[MattR]

That would be plenty long enough. Longest I could find was 3 metre lengths. Back to google later on I think , though if you could PM me the name of the company I'd appreciate it, saves a bit of time and all that!

 

[Steve Maskery]

I'm sorry if this is teaching granny to suck, but you can get a very accurate outline of the shape you need to cut for the scribe by cutting a mitre first.
Cut as for an internal mitre, then cut to the edge that has been created by that cut.

If that doesn't make sense I'll see if I can dig out some pictures.

As for the round chimney-breast corners, I don't envy you. I know the sort of thing you mean, but I don't think I've ever seen a neat one. Unless the radius is huge, I think I'd keep the mitre square and fill in the quadrant hole at the top with filler. Hardly ideal, I know, but the octagon idea sounds like a lot of work for something that won't look a whole lot better, TBH.

Good luck.

 

[Zeddedhed]

Wot Steve said.

 

[Eric The Viking]

When coping, undercut at the back so you get a hollow, rather than something that's exactly square to the moulding.

Chimney breasts are rarely properly square. You need one of these:

... so that it's easy to transfer the actual angle to the timber (don't forget you have to bisect it!). A really cheap one probably works just as well. I'd lay a couple of fairly thin battens on the floor, along the walls in question, and get the angles from those: They'll average out bumps and hollows in the wall (or they should), as you'll be filling the top edge where it meets the plaster.

When doing the outside corners of the chimney breast, make the mitres very slightly sharper than the joint (less if octagonal!). It only needs to be at most a degree or two. It will give you a sharp corner on the outer part of the skirting, and you can fill a gap at the back easily. Also, as it moves about, it is less likely to gap at the front, where it's obvious.

But you have a curve: Trace it out on paper (roughly), by laying a batten along the chimney breast front (at floor level), and measuring back along the returning wall to where you guess the curve starts: that distance is the radius.

Set it out on paper, cut it out, and see if it roughly fits. If so you have a pattern. You can then work out on paper, where the joints should come, for a 45degree cut across the corner (i.e as if it's part of an octagon, with 22.5 degree mitre angles). More angles than that become hard to cut precisely enough, and don't improve the aesthetics (in my opinion). Then you fill the cusp-shaped gaps behind the mitres.

Personally, I do the awkward joints first, in this case the exterior mitres, then offer up the piece to the alcove, to get the final length of the short returning piece. I know theoretically you should scribe that bit to the back piece, but you might find it easier to do t'other way round (i.e. the bit running down the side of the chimney is cut square and the bit in the alcove is scribed). It's not "right" but it may well be loads easier! Modern elastic fillers are wonderful!

Also, when fitting, if you can, ignore the wall's lack of verticality, and make sure the skirtings so as to be dead vertical. That way you have a much better chance of your joints working out!

Yesterday evening I joined two, 100 year old, 9" skirting pieces end-to-end with five biscuits. One piece was seriously warped, and I've steamed it in an attempt to relieve the strewsses. Still waiting for a loud crack! I now have to 'tune" the joint with chisels and planes to make it as invisible as possible, as it may show.

So there are worse skirting board issues!

E.

PS: +1 for Steve's tip on cutting a mitre to get the shape.

 

[chippy1970]

Another tip for you is not to cut the opposite end to the scribed end square. I always take 5mm to nothing at the top off this end as the walls nearly always bulge out like a pair of flares. If you take 5mm off the bottom of a 90 degree cut before fitting it won't catch the wall as you slide it in place. This gap is then covered by the next scribe.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[blackrodd]

Exactly wot Steve said, Usually, the first wall, opposite the door is put in full length first, then cut the 45 degree to suit the
face of the full length you are scribing into,on the left and right, it could be tipping slightly outwards at the top,
or it could be tipping slightly back at the top. match this for the snug fit and just slightly undercut to the line produced by the mitre, with you're coping saw.
Halving the angles at the external mitre can look ok, but fixing them is another matter without splitting and a large enough glue area to fixto.
Regards Rodders

 

[Eric The Viking]

Halving the angles at the external mitre can look ok, but fixing them is another matter without splitting and a large enough glue area to fix to

I quite agree, but if it's MDF (I think the OP didn't say), you might glue up & pin the mitres for the whole chimney breast away from the wall then slide it into place as one piece. It's probably a lot easier to cut back the plaster out of sight behind the skirting than try to do 22.5 mitres in situ, unless the skirting is thick and tall and you have a lot to fix into.

Of course nobody's yet mentioned scribing to floors that aren't flat and level, too...

 

[Jelly]

can anyone recommend a company (I am in Gloucestershire if that matters) that I can get a lot of Ogee Skirtign from? The practice bits I have got from B&Q are awful, so I am wary of ordering a big delivery from them, in case I need to then send half of it back.

How big is a big order? I can think of a merchant who'd do a ¼m³ mini-pack delivered nationally, but no-one in your area.

 

[MattR]

can anyone recommend a company (I am in Gloucestershire if that matters) that I can get a lot of Ogee Skirtign from? The practice bits I have got from B&Q are awful, so I am wary of ordering a big delivery from them, in case I need to then send half of it back.

How big is a big order? I can think of a merchant who'd do a ¼m³ mini-pack delivered nationally, but no-one in your area.

Sorry, Im a hobby / diy person, so a big order to me is one I can't get in the boot of the car :$ So its just enough for one reasonably sized room. (I've not got the dimensions with me, but allowing for the inevitable mistakes, I'd say its about 25 metres I need). SWMBO wants the skirting to be stained wood if possible, not painted, else I'd not be so concerned, as filler could cover a multitude of sins then!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Bradfords do a flat rate delivery - £6.95 iirc. if you're close to one of them. If you have a piece that's more than long enough for the long est wall, do a scribe before you cut it to length then you can have a second (and third ) crack at it if you screw it up. Then when you've a good one cut the other end square to length - you shouldn't have scribes on both ends.

 

[lurker]

I am currently replacing skirting in 5 rooms of a terraced house :x , A few points:

Never buy wood from Bent & Quirky (they are OK for sheet but not much else).
Walls are never flat, level or square.
If you are going to paint them, go for MRMDF as it will follow a crooked wall better
Buy decorator's caulk :roll: unless you want to have natual wood finish

 

[dzj]

If the radius is not too minute, you might be able to traverse it with a series of kerf cuts.

 

[Jelly]

25 linear metres of ex 150×25mm timber would be about 0.1 cubic metres (25×0.15×0.025). So not enough to justify ordering a mini-pack, (unless you really like working with redwood, in which case you could probably make it up with a further 37m of PAR or sawn of the same nominal dimensions).

James Latham's in Dudley is about an hour from you, I imagine you could probably agree a price for 25m of Ogee skirting, firsts and clears only over the phone to save you picking it out, pre-arrange collection get it popped on the roof of the car with their forktruck and you're sorted. (Roofbars, cam straps and some blue rope are the way forwards when it comes to transporting less that 100kg of timber too long to fit in the car.)

 

[delboy47]

Try Skirting Boards Direct. I have used them a few times and looks like no minimum order. They have literally dozens of different profiles at whatever height you require.

 

[MattR]

25 linear metres of ex 150×25mm timber would be about 0.1 cubic metres (25×0.15×0.025). So not enough to justify ordering a mini-pack, (unless you really like working with redwood, in which case you could probably make it up with a further 37m of PAR or sawn of the same nominal dimensions).

James Latham's in Dudley is about an hour from you, I imagine you could probably agree a price for 25m of Ogee skirting, firsts and clears only over the phone to save you picking it out, pre-arrange collection get it popped on the roof of the car with their forktruck and you're sorted. (Roofbars, cam straps and some blue rope are the way forwards when it comes to transporting less that 100kg of timber too long to fit in the car.)

Firsts and clears only?

I also need to build a log / wood store, so I might be able to make use of a mini pack, if I can find a quick plan for one to work out the timber i need.)

Thanks

 

[Jelly]

Firsts and clears only?

I also need to build a log / wood store, so I might be able to make use of a mini pack, if I can find a quick plan for one to work out the timber i need.)

Thanks

Sorry, some info on buying softwoods.

There are two major types of commercial softwood in the UK:

• Redwood aka Douglas Fir Pinus Sylvestris: Creamy white sapwood and yellow to reddy brown heartwood with an appreciable difference in density between early and latewood, commonly used for internal joinery and treated or painted for external joinery also, along with some structural applications.
  • Scots Pine: British grown material, often faster growing with widely spaced growth rings making for lighter, weaker timber which requires a very sharp edge to work to the best finish as the soft earlywood tends to indent slightly compared to the latewood. The "British Pine" species mix will contain the very similar Austrian/Black Pine Pinus nigraI species also.
  • European: grown in the Baltic countries & Scandinavia, relatively slow grown resulting in closer grain and improved physical properties.
  • Russian: not always distinguished from European, even slower grown, often from old-growth forests in the Siberian interior allowing larger widths, sectional sizes and qualities for a given size
• European Whitewood aka Norway Spruce Picea Abies & Silver Spruce Abies Alba: light Creamy wood, faint yellow-brown latewood, less dense (thus weaker for a given sectional size) but more lustrous than redwood. The country of origin is often undifferentiated, but the species mix British Pine includes Sitka Spruce Picea Sitchensis as well as Silver Fir & Norway Spruce. Commonly used for painted joinery, structural framing, and when pressure treated for outdoor constructions sheds, decks etc.

Redwood is likely what you'd think of as "Pine" if you saw it in a piece of furniture or paneling.

Visual Grades of timber:

• Clears: free of knots and defects, increasingly rare especially in large sectional sizes or lengths.
• Firsts Through Fourths: increasing size and prevalence of knots, knots are usually live knots and tend to get bigger as to go down the grades.
• Fifths: Larger knots, possibly including dead knots. This is the standard of Redwood stocked in many DIY superstores.
• Sixths: Larger knots still, Pith, Waney edges, Discolouration, splits and shakes.

Timber is imported and supplied in packs of U/S (unsorted Clears to 4ths), 5ths and 6ths, additional sorting for Clears, Firsts etc, is generally done at the mill or merchant on request. Visual grades are more important to redwood than whitewood.

Both timbers also come in Visual and Machine Graded Structural grades i.e. C16, about which I'm not nearly so well versed.

I would probably use redwood for stained skirting, and (as long as you're willing to check and if required refuse to accept or insist on discount for material which is poor the first time you deal with someone) specifying "clears and firsts preferred" is a good way to avoid getting the worst boards in the pack after everyone else has sorted through, if you're not picking it yourself.

I would not reccomend untreated redwood for use outside, I would normally go for pressure treated whitewood.

The merchant I was going to suggest was Howarth Timber Online, I'm not 100% what the minimum order would be, I think it's a quarter cube, but it may be more or less. They should be able to supply the skirting and treated wood for your woodstore. I'd also fore-warn them if access is tight and that you have no offloading equipment.

Sorry if any of this is teaching Granny to Suck Eggs, but I figure that the more "industry" knowledge is available, the easier it is for "outsiders" to order and do so with confidence.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

pseudotsuga menziesii is Douglas fir, pinus sylvestris is Scots pine.

 

[Jelly]

pseudotsuga menziesii is Douglas fir, pinus sylvestris is Scots pine.

Right you are, though I'm happy if thats that's the only error I've made in recalling that.