First metal lathe advice

[bennymk]

Hello Guys,

I restore straight razors and want to learn how to make my own collars. I've wanted to get a lathe for years and now have a actual reason..

The parts I'll be making are mega small the smallest parts are 3.5mm wide and around .7mm in height

The largest pieces are 6.5mm wide so as you can see pretty small parts. All out of brass first but would like to try copper and stainless steel in the future.

I've been reading lots and I kinda know the process of making them and I understand it in theory but I'm just totally clueless in terms of what size machine I should be getting? my space is quite limited.

I'd probably prefer a nice older machine and I don't really want to get a cheap Chinese machine but I'd like to know your thoughts and recommendations?

Thanks for your time..

 

[sploo]

Older machines are often larger. The Myford Super 7 is on the smaller side, but they go for very high money.

You'd be better off looking for a used model of the many clones of the Sieg mini lathe (e.g. Clarke CL300M, SIEG SC2). They are "cheap" but absolutely fine for small parts. I have the Clarke, later got a Colchester Chipmaster, but have kept the Clarke for occasional small work as it's less likely to kill me than the Colchester.

 

[Sideways]

Those parts sound almost like watchmaker territory.

Read about old lathes at www.lathes.co.uk awesome resource.
Look at Emco lathes
Read about Taig ( v small)
Personally I'm not attracted to Myfords
I wonder if the Denford machines sold to schools for teaching the concepts of CNC machining would be suitable.
Sieg mini lathes made in Shanghai are an option.

I have little experience of the Chinese lathes sold under UK brands like Axminster and Warco. Their badging of these machines don't impress. A men's shed bought a Warco so I've had the fun of uncrating one. About 10 minutes into the setup I told them they should send it back. Expecting the customer to do your quality control for you is not a business model I like.
I'd rather buy Sieg in their own red colours than Axminster's.

Here is a thought.
There are recommended speeds for cutting all materials in surface speed / minute, meters per second or whatever. It depends to some degree on the cutting tools you decide to use.
If you want to get clean cuts when machining very small parts, you need smooth bearings and very high rpm to achieve those surface speeds (pi x diameter x rpm sort of calculation)
That could be a valuable start. Research the range of speeds recommended for the metals you are interested in, consider the largest and smallest diameters of your parts and work out what sort of speeds you are going to need to spin the chuck to get clean cuts. That should prevent you buying an old myford with quite low speeds when you are likely to need something far faster.

 

[ChaiLatte]

At that size, you do not necessarily need a so-called 'mini lathe'. You are one step down in scale at the 'micro lathe' level.

Sherline is a close parallel to Taig (Millhill Supplies is UK distributor). I think Rotagrip are UK agents for Taig.

A Proxxon might also work.

 

[bennymk]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far I'll go and have a read up on all that's been mentioned.

 

[Fergie 307]

I do watch and clockmaking as a hobby.
For small parts like this an Emco Unimat is ideal. Get the SL1000 model for between £300 and over £1000 depending on condition and accessories.
If you get the basic machine then I would invest in either a four jaw independent chuck, or suitable collets and a holder.
Lots of stuff available to upgrade them.
Nice accurate little machine with good speed range. Small enough to live in a box under the bench when not in use.
You can get them in a purpose made wooden box where the top lifts off, like a typewriter, and you are good to go.
Only caveat is that they are only really any good for very small stuff, maybe up to 25mm or so, can't remember off the top of my head what the swing actually is.
If you get a mini lathe, Myford or bigger they are typically limited to around the 2000 rpm mark.
You can machine small parts at that speed, but ideally you want something much faster. The Unimat can happily run at 6000+.

 

[sploo]

Some good points made re rpm. If you're looking at tiny parts then a watchmaker's lathe may well be a better choice.

 

[Fergie 307]

Some good points made re rpm. If you're looking at tiny parts then a watchmaker's lathe may well be a better choice.

Most definitely, but very expensive, and not particularly versatile.
No way I could justify the expense.
The Unimat is a good, and comparatively cheap, alternative.
Before getting the Unimat I used my old Myford 4, or Harrison 5a. The Harrison in particular is certainly accurate enough.
The challenge when machining very small parts on such a big machine is mounting the work and tooling in the first place, and being able to see what you are doing. Then you have to allow for it running far below the ideal speed.
The Unimat is much better for this sort of job.
On the other hand one of my next jobs is to make a new cord drum for a 1750 grandfather clock. A half round spiral cut round a three inch or so brass cylinder, no way to do that on the Unimat, but a doddle on the Harrison.

 

[Vulcan]

There are some lovely small old lathes out there. I saw these on a FB group.

 

[Fergie 307]

Very nice, I bet they want some serious money for them.

 

[bennymk]

That lorch is just lovely.
I'm going to go down the taig route I've found a secondhand one that was used and is set up for watching making by a actual watch repair company so I'm hoping it set up nice and they were predominantly set up for brass cutting.

Now I need to figure out what tool bits to buy, shall I do a separate post in general metalworking or is there a more specific sub forum? I'll start off with HHS bits as I'm good at grinding but would like to buy a ready made set with a nice case first.

I only really need facing, chamfering and facing tools first. I'll do some rough drawing of what I need to achieve and see what the best tools for the jobs are.

Thanks for all the input gents, very helpful. I'll be posting more questions as I go along.

 

[Sideways]

A new thread in "general metalworking" would be great.
Thanks.

 

[Vulcan]

That lorch is just lovely.
I'm going to go down the taig route I've found a secondhand one that was used and is set up for watching making by a actual watch repair company so I'm hoping it set up nice and they were predominantly set up for brass cutting.

Now I need to figure out what tool bits to buy, shall I do a separate post in general metalworking or is there a more specific sub forum? I'll start off with HHS bits as I'm good at grinding but would like to buy a ready made set with a nice case first.

I only really need facing, chamfering and facing tools first. I'll do some rough drawing of what I need to achieve and see what the best tools for the jobs are.

Thanks for all the input gents, very helpful. I'll be posting more questions as I go along.

If you end up buying HSS blanks for grinding your own, try to get some with a high Cobalt content. They stay sharper longer than the cheaper stuff.

 

[bennymk]

If you end up buying HSS blanks for grinding your own, try to get some with a high Cobalt content. They stay sharper longer than the cheaper stuff.

What's considered high?

 

[bennymk]

A new thread in "general metalworking" would be great.
Thanks.

Shall do..

 

[dvddvd]

I have just recently bought a lathe.
I bought a Myford ML7 which had been restored.
It's over 75 years old, I paid £500.

I have spent another £300 or so on bits of tooling for it
Quick change tool post, ball turning tool, various collet holders, rear tool post etc.
So if you buy used and it has lots of extras they soon add up.
Only problem with older second hand lathes are that they will be all imperial, which is like a foreign language to me. Also the RPM are low so not ideal for carbide tools and working with aluminium.
Since they are old you may buy a worn out one or may get lucky and get one that's hardly been used.

But they are a perfect size for home use and still are very heavy but can just be lifted by one person..think there over 100kg

 

[Fergie 307]

That lorch is just lovely.
I'm going to go down the taig route I've found a secondhand one that was used and is set up for watching making by a actual watch repair company so I'm hoping it set up nice and they were predominantly set up for brass cutting.

Now I need to figure out what tool bits to buy, shall I do a separate post in general metalworking or is there a more specific sub forum? I'll start off with HHS bits as I'm good at grinding but would like to buy a ready made set with a nice case first.

I only really need facing, chamfering and facing tools first. I'll do some rough drawing of what I need to achieve and see what the best tools for the jobs are.

Thanks for all the input gents, very helpful. I'll be posting more questions as I go along.

Soba do some nice sets in various sizes, and reasonably priced.

 

[Fergie 307]

I have just recently bought a lathe.
I bought a Myford ML7 which had been restored.
It's over 75 years old, I paid £500.

I have spent another £300 or so on bits of tooling for it
Quick change tool post, ball turning tool, various collet holders, rear tool post etc.
So if you buy used and it has lots of extras they soon add up.
Only problem with older second hand lathes are that they will be all imperial, which is like a foreign language to me. Also the RPM are low so not ideal for carbide tools and working with aluminium.
Since they are old you may buy a worn out one or may get lucky and get one that's hardly been used.

But they are a perfect size for home use and still are very heavy but can just be lifted by one person..think there over 100kg

I think it depends on whether it is to be a fixed installation or something readily portable, which was my take on what the OP was looking for.
If you intend to fix it down, and have the room, then something the size and weight of the Myford is good, although speed is an issue for the small sized parts the OP is looking at.
Just as if you have the room then something like a Harrison or Colchester is vastly superior to the Myford or similar.
The great advantage of the Unimat or Taig is it's small size and weight. My Unimat lives with all its accessories in a toolbox under my workbench. I do most of my watch and clock stuff in my study, and don't have the room to have it permanently set up.
Of course the downside is that it is only capable of handling quite small work, but has the speed to be able to do that well.
The Taig is a bit slower running than the Unimat, but has power feed although I cannot recall if the speed is variable, or a fixed relationship to the spindle speed as it is in the power feed kit you can get for the Unimat. For power feeds to be really useful you need a gearbox so that they can be varied to suit the job, but that tends to only be available on larger screwcutting machines.
As they say horses for courses. I am sure he will find the Taig very good for what he wants to do. They are nice little machines.
The danger for the OP is that he will get bitten by the bug and soon want a bigger one !

 

[Vulcan]

What's considered high?

M42 is 8%, many others are 5%or less.

https://www.rennietool.co.uk/collections/hss-m42-8-cobalt-fully-ground-toolbits