Finish for spalted beech

[Terry Smart]

I'm going to try LO and Lacquer soon.

...but not on the same piece hopefully. Unlike a sealer, Lemon Oil is a finish in its own right and the only thing that should be appliled on top of it is either more Lemon Oil or Wax (in fact technically speaking wax shouldn't work on top of it but no-one's told the wax).
Depending on which lacquer you're using they can be used straight onto bare wood but using a sealer first will make life easier.

 

[wizer]

Cheers Terry, I was advised not to mix them earlier in this thread.

I'll probably try your aerosol lacquers when I next get some spare cash.

 

[PowerTool]

Hi Terry - I now use your finishes exclusively (always feel that it avoids incompatibility,sticking to one make),and use cellulose sanding sealer undiluted from the tin,and now often use the aerosol form as well,particularly for larger pieces - normally do one coat of aerosol sealer,then two or three coats of aerosol lacquer.

Andrew

 

[Paul.J]

Terry.
I have two tubs of your sealer one i have diluted just to use on those awkward bits of grain,and woods that don't give a good finish.
I use this this way so as not to waste the neat sealer,which i do use when the piece as got a good finish.
Plus i find the diluted sealer spreads better when used on a larger piece,especially on warmer days.

 

[big soft moose]

the sealer i had problems with seperating and not remixing easily was liberon - I did wonder if this might be to do with it being in a bottle and thus exposed to the light (whereas yours is i belive in a can) - I then got into the habit of not using it , as as the paste wax alone is working for me i dont see a lot of reason to change.

 

[Lofty]

Terry,
For this type of application, what is the difference between cellulose and shellac sanding sealer. I have been using shellac sealer mainly because the solvent being methylated spirits it's cheaper to use.

Mike

 

[Terry Smart]

The Liberon sealer is spirit based and these are more prone to separating as you describe (ours does the same although we changed the formulation some years ago to make it easier it mix back in).

Vigorous shaking should do the job, it might be necessary to break up the sediment on the bottom of the jar to help the process though. Some people put ball bearings or small pebbles in the bottle to do this, not sure if this is a good idea with a glass bottle though!

 

[Terry Smart]

Sorry Mike, missed your comment whilst typing.

There's not a huge amount in it price wise, the cost of shellac sees to that. (Not all spirit based sealers have shellac in them though...)

I'm not entirely sure about the 'in this application' part of your question, but I'm assuming we're talking about improving the stability of the timber for turning and cellulose will dry to a much harder finish than a shellac sealer due to its nature; I wouild guess (I'm not a turner) that this will give a better cut and be easier to work with.
It's also a lot quicker drying of course which is a benefit in itself.

Let me know if I've missed your point!

 

[Lofty]

Terry, yes thanks that answers the question, it sounds as though I should try cellulose sealer as it dries harder and that may well be an advantage.

Mike

 

[Lightweeder]

Trouble with being a newbie is that you don't know what you're doing most of the time. I borrowed some mixed sanding sealer from my husband - who's used it in making model 'planes for years. It didn't dry and wouldn't dry and I was scared of it for a long time. I then bought some Briwax shellac ss, purely because I don't have that many places where I can find things, and tend to get them when I can. It's fine, but I was wary of thinning, because of the stuff my husband gave me.

 

[mrs. sliver]

Husbands! :roll: (sorry sliver!)
We don't have many places local to buy much equipment dedicated to turning. but if you start with simple sanding seal you can sometimes get it in 'normal' hardware shops (or in t' interweb) then just try other finishes as you go. Most of mine right now is sanding seal and 22 wax (Chestnut supplies)

But, going back a bit, I like some of the light woods and the spalted, like this piece, so to keep it pale just a light sanding seal and burnish with shavings? :?:

 

[Lightweeder]

Husbands! :roll: (sorry sliver!)
We don't have many places local to buy much equipment dedicated to turning. but if you start with simple sanding seal you can sometimes get it in 'normal' hardware shops (or in t' interweb) then just try other finishes as you go. Most of mine right now is sanding seal and 22 wax (Chestnut supplies)

But, going back a bit, I like some of the light woods and the spalted, like this piece, so to keep it pale just a light sanding seal and burnish with shavings? :?:

Thanks Mrs S. I'm going to try the Chestnut stuff, which seems to be widely appreciated, but I do find sanding sealing darkens the wood a bit. What about just wax on its own? Sorry to be dense, but how does the burnishing with shavings thing work? Just bung it on presumably?

 

[CHJ]

[......, but I do find sanding sealing darkens the wood a bit. What about just wax on its own? Sorry to be dense, but how does the burnishing with shavings thing .....

Have you been using Shellac based sealer? I do not find any sygnificant darkening problems on light woods with cellulose based sealer,

Using wax without sealer will almost certainly darken the wood, if it soaks into the wood to any depth it may be slow to dry and show uneven dark patches.

 

[pete honeyman]

Just grab a handful of shavings from the piece and hold it against the wood while its spinning - try not to pick up any muck with it or it'll scratch.

 

[Wanlock Dod]

Terry,

I've been using sanding sealer for a while, I forget the brand (*) but it was the only one on sale in either BBQ or Gnomebase when I picked it up. Following the recommendation of Tony Wilson, I put the sealer in a glass jar with a brush stuck in the lid and found this to be a far more convenient way to use it. I regularly needed to add a bit of thinners (that was Chestnut) because the jar it was in would allow a bit of evaporation. Also I felt that it was easier to use once thinned. I tend to use a couple of coats, but thats simply because thats the way I do it. I don't recall ever having to give it more than a wee bit of a shake to get it dispersed again.

It was all going so well until the other weekend when the jar took a tumble. I picked up some Chestnut sanding sealer and a tin of thinners and plan to do just the same as before just as soon as I've sorted out another brush stuck in a jar. Having read what you have to say, however, I'll give it a try undiluted - I can't promise not to use the thinners though.

Mostly I tend to use a coat of tung oil instead these days, even though it takes about 700 times as long to dry. I did consider a pot of water-based sanding sealer recently, up until I noticed that it shouldn't be used below 15 degrees C. I reckon I'd only be able to use it 4 months of the year in my workshop, and even that seems optomistic. If I used it at cooler temperatures (say 8 to 10 degrees C) woudl it not work, or just take an intollerably long time to dry? I tend to leave tung oil for a week to dry properly.

Cheers,

Dod

(*) I think it was Briwax, as the wax I have is from that company and I bought both at the same time. I don't think that the wax has the same durability as Woodwax 22, but I get through so little of it that it is unlikely to need replacing for some time yet.

 

[Terry Smart]

Hi Again

Firstly, thanks to all those using our products! Not much I can say about that apart from keep it up and I hope we always deserve your support.

I didn't want to get into this discussion because I do believe it 'if ain't broke don't fix it' and although I know that thinning the sealer 50/50 isn't technically correct I also know a lot of people do it and get good results. I just happen to think there's a better way of doing it.

Moving on...

If I used it at cooler temperatures (say 8 to 10 degrees C) woudl it not work, or just take an intollerably long time to dry?

It's a cross between the two; the sealer won't dry properly and will take longer to get to any workable state. Also it won't be as tough as it should be. Acrylics are great in the right situation, from what you say you might be best to stick with the cellulose if you're getting on with it ok.

 

[mark sanger]

Well I have read this thread in detail and it is full of great advice and it comes down to personal preference based on experience.

For me ( I only made aesthetic pieces that have only the use of being looked at and touched) so I use cellulose sanding sealer diluted down 50% with cellulose thinners.

I give my spalted beech 2-3 good coats, a real soaking. Cutting each one back with 600 grit.

Then I buff this with a cloth with the lathe set at the fastest safe speed.

the I use Renaissance wax. It is a micro-crystalline wax which was developed by or for the British museum to use on their artefact's

It is not cheap but you apply 3 x very thin coats and buff by hand.

Bee's wax has a boiling point lower than body temperature. So hence the reason you get finger prints on work if you use a was that has a bee's wax base to it.

With renaissance you don't get this problem so people can pick it up and put it down and you don't get the issues.

It is easy to apply and the manufacturers reckon if you apply 6 x coats then it water proofs the piece. I have not tried this.

No I am not a re-seller of it but have used it for some time now and would never go back to anything else.

If any one wants more details of it email me. You can get it readily in good quality wood working outlets.

 

[Lightweeder]

[......, but I do find sanding sealing darkens the wood a bit. What about just wax on its own? Sorry to be dense, but how does the burnishing with shavings thing .....

Have you been using Shellac based sealer? I do not find any sygnificant darkening problems on light woods with cellulose based sealer,

Using wax without sealer will almost certainly darken the wood, if it soaks into the wood to any depth it may be slow to dry and show uneven dark patches.

CHJ - yes, the one I use is shellac-based, tho' I'm in the market for the quicker-drying cellulose one, as soon as I see it.

 

[Lightweeder]

By the bye, I read in one of Richard Raffan's books that he keeps little supplies of sawdust in various woods, in order to repair using CA. How clever is that? There may be some numbskulls like me out there who hadn't thought of that

 

[CHJ]

Guess what, even when you have some 20+ different shades of fine sanding dust the one you want to match isn't amongst them, :roll: thank goodness for contrast inclusions in most pieces. :lol: