Filler/putty made from oak dust and Titebond 3 - Dries dark?

[Sawdust=manglitter]

I have a bit of a gap with an exposed sliding dovetail panel on this cabinet I’m making so while the sliding dovetail was clamped up glueing (obviously only the first couple of inches, for expansion) I thought I’d try to fill the gap with some putty made from a mix of oak dust and Titebond 3... but it’s dried very dark!?!

Why has this happened? Is the glue ‘off’, or should I be using a different type of glue?

 

[oakfield]

Titebond 3 is quite dark when it dries and also, sawdust really soaks up the glue and turns darker than the wood it came from - in the same way that end grain soaks up finish.

 

[sunnybob]

Yup. I use titebond 3 a lot because it allows me to make adjustments before it sets, but the manufacturers info sheet will tell you it dries dark amber (or some such colour)
Just looked it up... TAN.
I use Bison glue for that kind of thing because it dries almost clear.

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

Ah sh*t!! That’s why then

Thanks both.

Sunny bob, when you say bison glue do you mean the super glue? Would that not show up as a bit blotchy after some finish? (Danish oil in my case)

 

[sunnybob]

This stuff
https://www.rapidonline.com/bison-pva-w ... sive-60648
I used it all the time when I first started woodworking, but in our hot summers it literally became superglue, instant grab, no second chances.
So i found titebond 3 (only one shop on the island 60 miles away that sells it) and its great in all other respects except the colour if your joint isnt flush. I get maybe 10 minutes to make adjustments even in 40c heat

Interesting side effect of titebond 3, have you dropped any on steel? Some fell unnoticed onto the bars of the record vice. You wont believe the way it discolours and actually eats into the metal.
So be careful out there.

 

[dzj]

A matching sliver of oak inserted and glued in the gap will show less than any sawdust
concoction.
A trained eye will always see through any such shenanigans, though.

 

[giantbeat]

from what i have tried all pva type glues will do this I'm afraid, best stuff i have used to hide small discrepancies is Bona Mix and fill, but that's not perfect as it takes aaages to set & shrinks back a lot, so multiple applications are often needed, its not a glue, so if it need extra bonding i insert glue and the push the mixed up mix & fill over the top.

 

[profchris]

I find glue and sawdust always dries darker, because (as someone posted previously), sawdust is almost all end grain! This is true even if I use CA or hot hide glue.

Using sawdust from a lighter coloured species of wood can help, though you have to create a test piece to see what the final colour will look like after sanding and under finish.

 

[stuartpaul]

However, when you cleaned up the joint you might find it's not too bad at all.

Post an 'after' shot for comparison.

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

Thanks for the tips. Well I cleaned up the joints a bit (what I could get away with in the house, as the workshop is sub zero for the first time ever!), and it looks pretty bad...

So I’m going to have to carefully remove what I can. And will fill the larger gaps with matching slivers, as suggested, but will need to try out other options for the smaller gaps.

In terms of the gaps, the mistake I made was not accounting for lateral shrinkage of the joints due to taking the wood into the house for a bit. Will need to try sorting out the air-tightness of the workshop this year!

 

[John15]

That joint is always going to bug you. I would think about removing it and cut a replacement.

John

 

[custard]

If I'm doing sliding dovetailed housing joints like this I almost always make them as stopped housings. In other words the actual dovetail joint is not exposed as it isn't carried through to the front 10mm. The reason is that you need a fairly sloppy joint to allow it to slide into position, but that sloppiness isn't very attractive.

Is there any way the design would allow for a capping or lipping to be laid over the vertical edge?

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

Unfortunately John removing and replacing the panel is not an option.

I think I get what you mean Custard, so almost making a face-frame? This is the cabinet as a rough dry fit...

I do have sliding dovetails all over the place, I thought it would be a nice feature, until I saw them properly glued up. All I’ve glued up so far is the centre 2 ’column’ panels with the solid panel shelf between them and the drawer dividers, so I suppose I do still have the opportunity to add a face frame type thing. What kind of exposed joints would you use for the ‘facia’ strips?

 

[ColeyS1]

You could make some delicate wedges with a very narrow taper. Make sure you get the grain to match the horizontal pieces of wood. Tap those in with a dab of glue on the end and it'll look much better than dark glue spots. If you got a bandsaw making the wedges will only take a few minutes.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[dzj]

Or you could lay some inlay around each dovetail and make it an
aesthetic feature of the piece. Make lemonade, so to speak.

 

[custard]

Having seen the photo of the entire piece I'm with Coley, fill the gaps with slivers of Oak as best you can. With care that could look entirely convincing on the sides of each individual tail, but it won't be quite as neat plugging any gaps on the end of a tail. You'll also have to be very careful dealing with glue squeeze out from your Oak slivers and patches, any PVA left in the open pores of Oak will be pretty obvious under an oil based finish. In squeeze out critical applications I prefer one of the liquid hide glues over PVA (Titebond do one that's available from Axminster and Workshop Heaven have just begun stocking "Old Brown Glue"), these clean up with hot water far better than PVA.

After doing the best job I could with slivers of Oak I'd then look to fill any remaining gaps with a coloured wax. These patching waxes fall into two camps, there's soft waxes like these,

https://www.wood-finishes-direct.com/pr ... gJOevD_BwE

Then there are hard wax filler sticks like these,

https://www.glenwooddecoratingsupplies. ... gLyNPD_BwE

The hard wax sticks are much better but are more difficult to apply. If you decide to go this route let me know and I can help you with the process. In fact if you want some small samples of Oak coloured soft and hard waxes PM me and I'll post you some pieces to experiment with.

There is a face frame option, but looking at the photo of the entire piece it's clear it would be quite a bit of extra work and it could look artificial where it's stuck on the front of the legs, plus it would be awkward to get the necessary precise fit around the drawer openings.

 

[stuartpaul]

I would be something of a fool to argue against Custards advice but is there an option of removing say 5 or 10 mm from your horizontals (being very careful excavating around the dovetail sockets) and then cutting some matching strips custom fitted to very tight tolerances for each shelf?

This replace all the shelf fronts with the appearance of tight fitting dovetails.

It is a hell of a lot of work and only you can decide if it's worth it.

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

Well the client (SWMBO) doesn’t like the idea of the inlaid dovetail, thanks tho dzj.

Thanks for the suggestion stuartpaul, but I think doing that would take too long. In terms of a ‘facia’, what I would have done is trim off the thickness of the ‘facia’ from the rear face so the panels would sit deeper, allowing for strips to be glued to the front of it all. But again, don’t think that would look quite right in the end, and as custard suggests it would look a bit artificial.

Custard, that sounds the most feasible option, making the best of a bad situation (This project really has been an education!!). In terms of the glue type, the client (SWMBO) is vegan and has requested that no animal product is used, which unfortunately rules out hide glue Would there be an alternative glue which may clean up better with squeezout? In terms of the waxes I would greatly appreciate some advice, and I think i’ll take you up on your kind offer too. Will sent you a PM, thank you!

 

[Mr T]

I have always thought that the efficacy of sawdust and glue filler is a woodworking myth, it never seems to work and ends up looking bodgy. Better to fill with solid wood if possible or failing that a well matching wax filler if the gap is small.

Chris