Festool Domino

[paulm]

Yeah but......, nobody has yet explained why or when you would use one and what it's main advantages are over biscuiting, dowelling, traditional M&T's or whatever........ :-k :sign3:

Cheers, Paul.

 

[ByronBlack]

Paul - the theory is that it's a replacement for M&T's in production furniture where speed is required. You can batch cut hundreds of loose mortices in no time at all and use the 'dominoes' as the tenons. You could do the same thing with a jigged router setup I suppose, but it's nice to have a dedicated tool.

 

[DomValente]

O.K. I've bought one, despite someone who knows better suggesting there may be alternatives. truth of the matter is I've started down the Festool route so I need the set, God help any of the collectors,I know who you are, that says anything

Out of the box it looks and feels good. Unfortunately that's as far as I've got, their seem to be more levers and slides than the average Jumbo jet.
No instruction manual , which is a bit disappointing.
But as I said it feels right.
Will post a report when I've tried Cleopatra out. What you don't give your tools names ?

 

[tim]

Dom

There should be an instruction manual - although its not good. The two stop accessories are well worth it - must haves IMO.

A good manual is available online here:

http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=15&prodid=574258#

but this is better:

http://www.festoolusa.com/Web_files/Getting_the_most_from_the_Festool_Domino_Machine.pdf

Cheers

Tim

 

[DomValente]

Tim, that is absolutely superb, thank you.
Will print those out for workshop reference.

Dom

 

[Paul Chapman]

That looks like a great tool, Dom. I reckon that loose tenons are one of the most useful joints in cabinet making but cutting them on odd shaped pieces can be difficult sometimes. That article in the second of Tim's links gives some very good examples - I read most of it and I haven't even got a Domino machine I reckon it has quite a few advantages over the biscuit jointer when working on very small section pieces. I'd be very interested to know how you get on with it and how long the cutters last. Looks like a very good buy.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Dan Clark]

Dom,

You also might want to check out the Festool Owners Group here: http://www.festoolownersgroup.com/. There's a lot of good discussions about the Domino.

Also, check out the "How To..." section: http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?board=24.0. There are several good posts about the domino there, including this one: http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=1315.0. It is entitled, "Euro Cabinets 101-2 A Beginner's Guide". It covers making euro cabinets with Festool tools, including the Domino. It is EXTREMELY good, IMO.


Good luck with your new toy, uhh... tool.

Dan.

 

[DomValente]

Thanks Dan will check those out.

Dom

 

[Waka]

Dom

Welcome to the festool collectors forum, the big question is "will you use it?

Does look nice, me I'm still contemplating the expence.

 

[Scrit]

Paul - the theory is that it's a replacement for M&T's in production furniture where speed is required. You can batch cut hundreds of loose mortices in no time at all and use the 'dominoes' as the tenons. You could do the same thing with a jigged router setup I suppose, but it's nice to have a dedicated tool.

Byron, in a real production shop for batch work (i.e. a place turning out tens of things) you'd probably use something like a Rye or Bacchi round end tenoner and a matching slot mortiser - these machines make the Domino look extremely pedestrian and being very substantial will last for many years (even Festool stuff falls apart eventually, you know).

My feeling, having used one, is that they are useful for face frame M&Ts and mitre joins, such as those in architraves, etc. where the face is too short for a conventional biscuit or two dowels at standard (32mm) centres but that other than that they have no advantage over an existing technology in most instances. The use of loose tenons in full size doors and windows is probably not going to result in a long life as conventional joinery joints are very much belt and braces with through tenons and wedges to ensurs a glue and mechanical joint in one (so if the glue fails the wedges will still hold). I can't see how you'd do that realistically with a Domino. In a production environment the repeat accuracy of the Domino is in part down to the ability/consistency of the human operator whilst static machines, once set-up, require less skill to achieve consistent results.

For Dom's particular task - which I believe is face frames - the Domino is useful, but it isn't the only solution. I sometimes feel that those who laud it so highly have never experienced the other alternatives.

Scrit

 

[Anonymous]

I sometimes feel that those who laud it so highly have never experienced the other alternatives.

Scrit

Scrit, sometimes I'm not sure you really have a grasp of the difference between a pro woodworker making a living at it in a pro shop, and a weekend woodworker doing it for fun :lol:

Most people who rave about the domino(as far as I have seen) are hobbiests and as such have never seen, yet alone used one of the machines you talk about :wink:

 

[Scrit]

.....sometimes I'm not sure you really have a grasp of the difference between a pro woodworker making a living at it in a pro shop, and a weekend woodworker doing it for fun

Tony

To start with this thread was begun by a professional woodworker, and at over £600 (more than many people's sawbenches cost) I'd say the Domino is a professional machine. Wouldn't you?

The particular comment you picked up on from, incidentally by an amateur woodworker, was

"...the theory is that it's a replacement for M&T's in production furniture where speed is required."

Taken in that context what I said was perfectly correct. The Domino is not a volume production machine (in the same way a portable router isn't), a static machine such as a Rye or Bacchi round-end tenoner is. Never hear of one? Well the round-end tenoner is alive and well in amateur woodworking circles in the form of the JDS Multi-Router, the Woodtek Matchmaker or the Stansfield Joiner/Shaper (all of which are in one of the late Patrick Spielman's books) - always assuming that you don't just rout out both the holes with a router and template jig and round off the edges of some flat stock on a sander....... Or is it that you are saying that I should limit the content of my responses to what you can buy from Rutlands or Axminster?

The Domino in a production shop has a potentially very limited application and it comes with an extremely hefty price tag. It is not a production machine, but is a very short run batch machine with probably a very similar life span as a heavy duty router. I doubt that it is robust enough for continuous production work, partly because there are so many bits to fall off or get damaged and logic and experience both dictate that the simpler a machine the longer it lasts (in general). I've seen enough worn-out Festo/Festool stuff in recent months to know that whilst they are good, they're not invincible and they do wear out - they just do so a bit slower than the rest of the trade tools

I have recently been trying out a Domino and find it to be a bit of a curate's egg. In some ways it is inferior to a biscuit jointer, in other ways better (in fact the two machines have functionality which only partly overlaps), but for the price of a Domino there are other ways to achieve the same end, often at a much lower price. So to me it's a tool aimed at a particular segment of the professional market and which is also being bought by some well-healed (and often not well-informed) amateurs in order to get bragging rights...... A bit like the Biesmeyer fence :wink:

Most people who rave about the Domino (as far as I have seen) are hobbiests and as such have never seen, yet alone used one of the machines you talk about

Oh, I see, ignorance is bliss :roll: :wink:

I must suppose if you've never looked at any of the more 'esoteric' biscuit or doweller fastenings available these days (and don't a lot of people have biscuit jointers?) which will extend the use of your biscuit jointer into "Domino country", such as the recently introduced Fixo fastening (great for joining face frames, but then there's loads of ways to do that in any case) or the myriad of KD fastenings both dismantleable and non-dismantleable which are available for biscuit jointers. Even Lamello make KD fastenings and hinges.

That you haven't perhaps heard of the Hoffman dovetail system is perhaps understandable as it is generally sold through trade outlets, but with the basic machine coming at little more than the Domino it, too, should be a contender for people's dosh. It can certainly do stuff the Domino can't, and it's managed to carve out a nice little niche market amongst exhibition stand builders, shop and bar fitters and high-end kitchen makers. But maybe I shouldn't have mentioned it, because whilst it is sold through Titman Tip Tools, it isn't offered in either the Rutlands or APTC catalogues. Then again I'm probably only saying that because whilst I own some Festool stuff, I've never succumbed to Festool fever :lol:

Scrit

 

[ByronBlack]

I Would just like to point out that my post did state 'the theory' is, i.e what i've read of the information available, there really is no need in this thread to start an amateur vs pro debate, it was just a comment that I was passing on from the information that i've had at hand (And just a small thing, there wasn't an intention of my statement to imply it was for volume work).

Scrit, I disagree on some of your points and feel you are being unfair to insinuate that some sections of hobbyist only buy it from an ill-informed point of view and for bragging rights, most people's reviews and feedback that i've read have certainly bestowed it's benefits to them in a very non-bragging way but thats by the by, there is a clear divide on the use of this tool, and I for one will look forward to Dom's opinion of it in a pro setting to see how much it differs from those who use it in a hobbyist setting. Can we all just get along?

 

[DomValente]

Easy chaps, I suppose, depending which way you look at it, it was a brag.
But I chose to ignore Scrits advice, not because I don't respect his opinion, he is knowledgable and cares how we use our tools and spend our money.
This is not a pro backing up a fellow pro, when I disagree with Scrit( rarely) I tell him.
Scrit is right in saying that the machine is not a practical tool for the professional except for site face framing and the like,as far as I can see.
But it is my intention, in the not too distant future, to go back to the roots of my original plan and that was to make beautiful one off pieces for"the discerning customer"
My feeling is that this tool will help me with angled tenons and the like. No doubt there are other machines out there, but then then they don't have the same 'Gloat' value as Festool

Dom

 

[JFC]

But it is my intention, in the not too distant future, to go back to the roots of my original plan and that was to make beautiful one off pieces for"the discerning customer"

On a serious note if you want to be doing that Dom then i don't think any false tenons or the like will be what your customers are after . Not if you want to be building real classy stuff like we all would like to do . One offs at a good price then yes shortcuts with the latest jointing methods are good .

On another note you are now called Domino Dom :lol:

 

[DomValente]

On a serious note if you want to be doing that Dom then i don't think any false tenons or the like will be what your customers are after . Not if you want to be building real classy stuff like we all would like to do

On another note you are now called Domino Dom :lol:

Agree and don't agree.
If making traditional furniture then yes, traditional joints, but modern/contemporary furniture doesn't always lend itself to traditional joints and often requires some inventiveness.

On the other note, I'll still be known as "The Dominator".

Dom the Dominator

 

[engineer one]

personally having both a biscuit jointer and a doweller( mafell)
i think the festo domino was another attempt to make something slightly better.

as i have said elsewhere, the problem with the mafell is that it does not allow you place it flat on the worksurface in exactly the same way as a domino or a biscuit jointer.

like all portable machines, these three have their limitations not least in longevity. :roll:

however dom having just made a 16 m/t joints by hand basically, i agree about speeding up the process. :lol:

i think the whole machinery argument has to do with the speed of manufacture, i would have thought dom, you could not get any faster :twisted: :lol:


good luck with it.

paul :wink:

 

[JFC]

True but then would you not agree that modern stuff with modern jointing methods is actually not as good as trad stuff ?
Maybe this is another thread we should start rather than lose the point of this one .

 

[engineer one]

jason what's this controversy :lol:

the problem starting with that thread is that people are even more polarised on that subject than sharpening :twisted: :roll:

i think it is easy to forget that much so called traditional woodworking of any description has only lasted because we have had no invaders here in britain for many centuries, thus people have not had to replace it :twisted:

personally i believe there is much to be said for some of the modern stuff, but so much is rather like new architecture removing the good functional bits just because they are old fashioned. in that case make em any way that allows you to sell at a decent price.

i mean if you had made your bookcase/display thingie with proper
joints could you have sold it for 5k which is about what it should have cost with the time involved.

so far i have spent about 12 hours on my coffee table, plus planing the wood up by hand, say another 12 hours.
in total it will end up at around 40 hours pre staining and finishing.

would it be saleable at a grand i think not, even if i had a name, so what is its value, except as a test piece for showing my skills.(what skills :roll: )
if the design looks good then maybe i can make it by machine in about 1/3rd the time, would it still be worth 400 quid??

seeing some of the cr*p in the shops maybe :lol:

but maybe it is worth another thread, whose gonna start it????

paul :wink:

 

[JFC]

Me