Festool and Retail Price Maintenance

[chippy1970]

Tony please read it carefully it was two faulty routers in a row not just one. I work with lots of people and I am sorry if it upsets you but most people I meet in the trade think Dewalt is rubbish.

I was in a shop awhile back and the dealer told me a story that he had the Dewalt rep in with some important Dewalt people and a customer walked in and was asked what he thought of Dewalt tools and the customer said why are they so crap. The rep did not have a reply to that.

The only other Dewalt stuff I have is a radio which I won in a competition and the small bench for the mitre saw which they couldn't make wrong if they tried.

As I say its not just one router I have looked at all their tools and generally the build quality is bad, not like when it was Elu.

At the end of the day we all have our own opinions it would be a boring world if we didnt.

 

[Paul Chapman]

As I say its not just one router I have looked at all their tools and generally the build quality is bad, not like when it was Elu.

Just to put another point of view, I was a great fan of Elu and have several of their tools, including the MOF96 router, which is still going strong. When I bought a 1/2" router about three years ago I chose the DeWalt 625E as it was the nearest to the discontinued Elu MOF177E. I've been delighted with it and had no problems at all. Maybe the issue is that DeWalt can and do produce good quality tools - it's just that they can't do it consistently.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[andy king]

Hi Chippy1970,

I've certainly had no problems with my DW625, and it taken a load of stick on a regular basis. At the moment, in my opinion DeWalt make the best (cordless) nailgun on the market, beating Paslodes hands down for performance and consistency, and Paslodes are seen as the leaders in their percieved field, much the same as Festool in powertools. If DeWalt can get the same technology to fire a 90mm first fix nail, the likes of Paslode will certainly struggle.
Oh yes, DW mitresaws are excellent as well, the DW712 is well manufactured, I use one in my workshop and have no problems with it. I might be lucky - who knows?
That said, there's a thread on here from markymark12 who has had problems with Festool and says they aren't as good as they used to be. A sign of the times or is he just as unlucky as you are with DeWalt?
I think that while you are right that some DeWalt stuff isn't as good as others, that can be the case in other brands as well.
There is still a lot of tool snobbery on site from the pro's, there always has been. There was when I used to do it, with any number of tradesmen asking what they thought of each others gear and tales of woe from each user of anther brand as to why you should be using some other make.
I own and use tools from all the major manufacturers, and choose the tool from each as its my own personal favourite (with the exception of Festool - it's too expensive for me! ) but they do make some very clever and innovative stuff, and research and development has to be a factor in any pricing I suppose.
Doesn't get us any further on with the Festool pricing argument, just my own view on DeWalt I suppose. I certainly don't think they are as bad as they are being made out to be...

cheers,

Andy

 

[chippy1970]

What you don't get FREE Festool stuff Andy like Steve Maskery ? :lol: :lol: :lol:

You are right on the Finish nailer Dewalt make I do work for someone and he has a couple of Paslodes and the Dewalt and it is good I like the lights so you can use it to fix doorstops in a dark cupboard :lol: :lol: so I will give you that. My 626 router has been fine but you cannot honestly say thats its as good as the Festool routers.

Its not only Dewalt a lot of the Trend stuff feels cheap and nasty too thats the trouble with having it all made in Eastern Europe as I was told by Dewalt the routers are made in the Czech Republic.

Sorry if my opinion upsets you Dewalt lovers but I have been working as a chippy/joiner for over 20 years now and I have seen the decline in the quality of most power tools over those years starting when Elu vanished.

 

[andy king]

What you don't get FREE Festool stuff Andy like Steve Maskery ? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nah, no such luck! :lol:
I suppose the difference between the Dewalt and Festool routers is reflected in the price, i've got the new Festool in for review at the moment and its about twice the price of a DW!
I can't remember offhand without digging out my original review, so it may be the 626 is Czech, but the 625 and a couple of other routers were made in Italy last I heard. Switzerland was the home of Elu, but I'm not 100% certain if Elu had actually moved their manufacture to Italy beofre they sold to DeWalt.
I'm not a DeWalt lover per se, just someone who has tried and still uses good tools from DeWalt, likewise Makita, Bosch, Metabo etc etc, but as you say, quality has declined in some areas, but there are still some very good tools out there from all of them, so I won't dismiss an entire brand, especially when such gems as the nailgun hit the market.

cheers,
Andy

 

[Anonymous]

Tony please read it carefully it was two faulty routers in a row not just one. I work with lots of people and I am sorry if it upsets you but most people I meet in the trade think Dewalt is rubbish.

.

Why on earth would it upset me that you don't like Dewalt tools??????????

My experience and that of most people on here is different to yours, and so we take a different view. I simply feel that you are labelling a brand rather unfairly simply because of one bad experience.

My Dewalt kit is as good as my Festool (build quality and accuracy) - but I prefer my LV/Clifton/LN kit to both of them :wink:

 

[chippy1970]

Right I will say it once more it was not just one bad experience it was two bad routers that I had and also I have seen and used most of the range from Dewalt so I know exactly what they are like.

My comments are based on all the people that I have ever spoken to on various sites around the country who agree that Dewalt are not very high quality tools.

Can we leave it there as I cant be bothered to keep on repeating myself and this thread was nothing to do with my opinions on Dewalt.

I suppose if you think your Dewalt router is better than a Festool router then thats your opinion too even though I dont know of anyone who would agree with you.

 

[RogerS]

Does anyone know who investigates claims of Retail Price Maintenance in the UK?

I looked up, using Google Product Search, Festool Domino. Sorting by price gave seven listings at £666.23 or £666.22.

Type in Festool TS55 and there are 12 (!!) listings all at exactly £1034.00.

If that isn't a prime example of blatant Retail Price Maintenance then I don't know what is.


EDIT: Office of Fair Trading.

Please contact them and complain here

[email protected]

 

[SBJ]

I think that the model is different for Festool products. The "retailer" is actually an agent therefore the prices are set by Festool for the power tools not the retailer hence why there appears to be price fixing.

I think that it's slightly different for the accessories and that's where you are able to negotiate a deal.

I hope that doesn't disappoint you Roger.

My advice though, if you dont want to pay the price get something different. Unless of course you feel that the festool domino is so good that you cant live without it, in which case just pay the price and stop moaning.

 

[RogerS]

I think that the model is different for Festool products. The "retailer" is actually an agent therefore the prices are set by Festool for the power tools not the retailer hence why there appears to be price fixing.

I think that it's slightly different for the accessories and that's where you are able to negotiate a deal.

I hope that doesn't disappoint you Roger.

My advice though, if you dont want to pay the price get something different. Unless of course you feel that the festool domino is so good that you cant live without it, in which case just pay the price and stop moaning.

Rubbish. Suggest you do a bit of research first before sounding off.

http://www.qfinance.com/dictionary/resa ... aintenance

And, as for moaning, bloody good job some of us actually get off our ars*s and try and change things.

 

[mailee]

I use mainly De Walt tools and have been more than happy with them. Ido not have any Festool tools and didn't like the ones I have tried. If something is three times the price then I expect it to be three times better, they aren't so I don't buy them, Simples. :wink:

 

[SBJ]

I think you missed my point, sunshine. As I understand it, and I could be wrong, when you buy a festool power tool you are buying it from a Festool agent who is working on behalf of Festool. Not everyone can be an agent, I think that there are interviews, training, etc before you are able to sell festool products. When you purchase the tool you are in effect buying it from Festool who are allowed to price their products how they wish which is why when you did your "research" on google all the prices were the same.

However, I dont think that it applies to accessories which is why you can sometimes negotiate a deal when you buy a festool power tool as the retailer has the freedom to act on it's own behalf and discount where it sees fit.

This is all how it was described to me by a man who sells Festool power tools, as I say I could be wrong.

 

[SBJ]

And, as for moaning, bloody good job some of us actually get off our ars*s and try and change things.

I was trying to give you some information that was hopefully going to stop you making a *** of yourself. I failed

 

[petermillard]

Old thread.

Have to agree with SBJ - my understanding is that UK Festool 'dealers' act as 'agents' for the power tool sales, so there isn't any 'resale' taking place when you buy from them, ergo it's outside of the bounds of the Resale Prices Act that RogerS refers to. Are Festool using this to side-step the Act? Well, I think it's probably crossed their minds Obviously we have every right to complain about it but as posted very much earlier in the thread, the OFT appears to be a toothless watchdog.

Do I wish Festools were cheaper? Sure, but personally I quite like the fact that I can buy from anyone and know it'll be the same price - no need to spend time and effort in hunting down the 'best deal'. And if by chance I come across an item that's significantly cheaper than everyone else, then I know to ask why.

Pete

edited for spelling

 

[chippy1970]

Why do people seem intent on having a go at Festool surely you want to be having a go at these companies, no names mentioned that are selling sub standard power tools not a company that does its best to supply decent tools, yes they are expensive but you get what you pay for.

As Peter says as well, having a set price means you dont have to waste time looking for it cheaper, some people just dont get that fact.

 

[RogerS]

Frankly I am staggered by the suggestions that one wastes time looking for a better deal. Ignoring the fact that Festool are blatantly breaking the spirit if not the law. If you have so much spare cash that you don't mind paying through the nose then perhaps you'd like to send some my way.

So they have created some sort of fudge using the term 'agency' to get round the law. Is this in the spirit of RPM legislation? So what do we do? Nothing? Walk on by? Continue to get rolled over? Oh..I forgot....you've got so much dosh that you don't mind paying.

 

[RogerS]

.....no names mentioned that are selling sub standard power tools ......

Such as?

 

[studders]

Perhaps the difference in attitudes arises because the majority of people who buy Festool 'appear' to be trade? Is not the cost of the tool then tax deductible? If so then the cost is pretty irrelevant to them surely? I've seen posts from trade where they factor in the price of the tool into the job so price again is irrelevant.
My own view is that much of the Festool gear is priced at a ridiculously high level so, as a hobbyist, I find them far too expensive to justify buying them.
I recently bought a Lamello Top BJ at a 'very' good price. The price of the kit new is around £600 :shock: Although it's a nice bit of kit it isn't, in my view, worth that price tag; maybe £200 but £600? No way.

 

[SBJ]

Frankly I am staggered by the suggestions that one wastes time looking for a better deal. Ignoring the fact that Festool are blatantly breaking the spirit if not the law. If you have so much spare cash that you don't mind paying through the nose then perhaps you'd like to send some my way.

So they have created some sort of fudge using the term 'agency' to get round the law. Is this in the spirit of RPM legislation? So what do we do? Nothing? Walk on by? Continue to get rolled over? Oh..I forgot....you've got so much dosh that you don't mind paying.

I don't think that anyone suggested that you shouldn't try to find a better deal, but now you are armed with more information you should be able to make your purchasing decisions more quickly with respect to Festool power tools. No need to thank us for the information or apologise for saying that my post was rubbish.

I'd agree that Festools policy seems to be unique in the tool market, and I'm also sure that it costs them in terms of sales. However I don't think that the idea is to create some sort of fudge or blatantly break the spirit of the law but to try to control the quality of their service to the end user. Whether this works or not is another matter of course.

For what it's worth, you might be better saving you pennies for some sort of "I seem to be turning into a miserable old man and wont take good advice when it's given to me but instead lash out at those that are trying to help me" course.

 

[RogerS]

....
For what it's worth, you might be better saving you pennies for some sort of "I seem to be turning into a miserable old man and wont take good advice when it's given to me but instead lash out at those that are trying to help me" course.

For what it's worth? Not a lot.