Face masks

[Phil Pascoe]

I will wear them as required, but still retain my 3+ metres* distancing and hand washing practices.
* I never accepted from the get go that 2 metres was enough.

No, it should have been 500 mil upwind and six metres downwind.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

And in case of nuclear attack, hide under a table ... and other useful government advice.

A bit of an aside, I have personally met a man who survived the bombing of Nagasaki by sheltering under his desk. OK, if you were close to the blast, you and the desk are done for. But on the fringes, the building you're in might kill you rather than heat or radiation.

So sometimes rather inadequate sounding advice can just make the difference - not guaranteed protection, just improving the odds.

 

[whatknot]

I couldn't agree more

Whats the fuss, if its mandatory just comply whats the big deal

As to the suggestion that people wearing seat belts drive faster, what a load of tosh, people that want to speed, will do, it was no different before seat belts became mandatory, people drove to fast then too

When I am out shopping, I am *very* aware of the need to not touch your face, mask or no, its plain common sense

If *you* wear a mask you reduce the risk of passing it on (you may not know you have it until its to late) and if everyone else wears a mask, they reduce the risk of passing it on to *you*

The more you minimise the risk, the less likely you are to get it

I really don't understand what there is to complain about

I don't understand all the objections to masks. The logic is simple (to me): Spittle, and water droplets come out of your mouth when you talk, and breath. The mask - even a basic one - reduces the droplets being propelled onto other people, surfaces, the air immediately in the vicinity of others (e.g. as you walk past each other in a shop aisle).

No one says it will 100% defend the wearer from infection. No one says it will 100% stop the spread of the virus.
It's just a way to help stem the spread.

Everyone is so sensitive about this, it's crazy.

We wear seat belts in cars, we wear helmets on motorcycles, we adhere to a speed limit, we use a riving knife, we wear airplane belts, we wear PPE at work. the list goes on. It's just another precaution. let's just get on with it and try and be happy

 

[Rorschach]

Whats the fuss, if its mandatory just comply whats the big deal

As to the suggestion that people wearing seat belts drive faster, what a load of tosh, people that want to speed, will do, it was no different before seat belts became mandatory, people drove to fast then too

Statement 1: You want to be real careful with that attitude, history should have taught you better.

Statement 2: You are just plain wrong, plenty of science to back it up, the safer we make things the greater the risk people take. This is not an opinion or a cause for argument, it is a plain simple fact.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

There is a purist approach which seeks to reduce the risk of infection to zero. This is neither practicable or affordable - crossing the road, lightning strike, air crash etc become high risk by comparison.

I favour a more pragmatic approach where the risk is reduced to what could be described as normally acceptable levels.

Based on latest data ONS estimate 1 in 3900 were infected in the two weeks ended 5th July. You could spend every day for the next week marching up and down your local high street and not pass a single infected person (probably).

If the rate of transmission remains unchanged and every 2 weeks there are another 1 in 3900 infections, over the course of the next year the risk changes to approx 1 in 150. This is starting to become a significant risk - if I visit a supermarket every day for the next year I may pass someone who is infected (roughly).

To reduce the risk of personal infection I need to do a number of things:

- support mask wearing - consensus is that it materially reduces virus spread
- avoid crowded enclosed spaces
- limit closer contact to those who are similarly cautious
- STAY ALERT, WASH HANDS blah blah blah

And bear in mind that even if CV-19 deaths continue at 100 per day (36000 pa) it would only be 4th to 6th on the main causes of death in the UK (after heart, dementia, cancer).

 

[whatknot]

This has to be a wind up surely ;-)

Re seat belts, even if the assertion were true, the facts are that wearing a seat belt reduces the risk of injury or death (even if you were going faster than you were)

Wearing a mask and others doing likewise *will* reduce the risk to both parties, *and* to your nearest and dearest by you not passing it on by being infected by a total stranger whilst out shopping

 

[Blackswanwood]

Whats the fuss, if its mandatory just comply whats the big deal

As to the suggestion that people wearing seat belts drive faster, what a load of tosh, people that want to speed, will do, it was no different before seat belts became mandatory, people drove to fast then too

Statement 1: You want to be real careful with that attitude, history should have taught you better.

Statement 2: You are just plain wrong, plenty of science to back it up, the safer we make things the greater the risk people take. This is not an opinion or a cause for argument, it is a plain simple fact.

Statement 1: He's advocating wearing a facemask not invading Poland

Statement 2: Source Think.gov.uk:

The facts

In a crash you’re twice as likely to die if you don’t wear a seat belt.
Drivers and passengers aged 17-34 have the lowest seat belt-wearing rates, combined with the highest accident rate.

 

[Rorschach]

Statement 1: He's advocating wearing a facemask not invading Poland

Statement 2: Source Think.gov.uk:

The facts

In a crash you’re twice as likely to die if you don’t wear a seat belt.
Drivers and passengers aged 17-34 have the lowest seat belt-wearing rates, combined with the highest accident rate.

Small steps lead to tyranny. :wink:

I never said it was safer to drive without a seat belt, go back and read it properly before you post irrelevant facts

 

[Blackswanwood]

Statement 1: He's advocating wearing a facemask not invading Poland

Statement 2: Source Think.gov.uk:

The facts

In a crash you’re twice as likely to die if you don’t wear a seat belt.
Drivers and passengers aged 17-34 have the lowest seat belt-wearing rates, combined with the highest accident rate.

Small steps lead to tyranny. :wink:

I never said it was safer to drive without a seat belt, go back and read it properly before you post irrelevant facts

You said “People who wear seat belts drive faster and more dangerously.”

I’m struggling to see how that correlates with the highest accident rate being linked to those that have the lowest seat belt-wearing rates.

 

[Rorschach]

You said “People who wear seat belts drive faster and more dangerously.”

Yes I did, because it's true. Google the Peltzman effect, or risk compensation.

In fact since you are too lazy to do it for yourself, I have got you a starter link, you're welcome :wink:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation

 

[Trevanion]

Can we have ONE decent thread on CV that doesn't devolve into petty and inconsequential bickering ffs...

 

[Blackswanwood]

You said “People who wear seat belts drive faster and more dangerously.”

Yes I did, because it's true. Google the Peltzman effect, or risk compensation.

In fact since you are too lazy to do it for yourself, I have got you a starter link, you're welcome :wink:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation

I’m very familiar with the Peltzman effect. I wrote a dissertation on motor insurance personal injury costs and referenced it heavily. My research went a bit beyond Wikipedia and YouTube.

If you read it properly (not the cut down version that has recently been doing the rounds on the likes of the conversation) and you’ll see it’s not quite that straightforward.

Some people get lulled into a false sense of security but the overall benefit of seatbelts is positive. Masks could well be in the same category.

 

[Rorschach]

I’m very familiar with the Peltzman effect. I wrote a dissertation on motor insurance personal injury costs and referenced it heavily. My research went a bit beyond Wikipedia and YouTube.

If you read it properly (not the cut down version that has recently been doing the rounds on the likes of the conversation) and you’ll see it’s not quite that straightforward.

Some people get lulled into a false sense of security but the overall benefit of seatbelts is positive. Masks could well be in the same category.

Well if you did write that dissertation you know what I am saying is correct, I didn't say seatbelts were bad, just that whenever you create safety, you also create a willingness to take risks. Are another one purposely misunderstanding me and trying to find an excuse to attack me?

 

[Blackswanwood]

Well if you did write that dissertation you know what I am saying is correct, I didn't say seatbelts were bad, just that whenever you create safety, you also create a willingness to take risks. Are another one purposely misunderstanding me and trying to find an excuse to attack me?

No I am not purposely trying to find fault in what you say and have no interest in attacking anyone. I do find what I see as your tendency to make sweeping statements and then not entertain the possibility that those who have a different view to yours to be “plain wrong” a bit disconcerting though.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Can we have ONE decent thread on CV that doesn't devolve into petty and inconsequential bickering ffs...

No.

 

[llangatwgnedd]

Should have worn masks at the beginning of the outbreak.
Instead, we filled the undertakers wallet instead.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

They could at least have insisted the people flying in from Wuhan and Iran wore them.

 

[Rorschach]

No I am not purposely trying to find fault in what you say and have no interest in attacking anyone. I do find what I see as your tendency to make sweeping statements and then not entertain the possibility that those who have a different view to yours to be “plain wrong” a bit disconcerting though.

It wasn't my view, it was a factual statement that you also know to be true, you wrote a dissertation on it :|

 

[lurker]

Should have worn masks at the beginning of the outbreak.
Instead, we filled the undertakers wallet instead.

Your faith in such a poor form of protection is rather worrying.

 

[whatknot]

I completely agree, its rather late in the day IMHO

Should have worn masks at the beginning of the outbreak.
Instead, we filled the undertakers wallet instead.