EZ Smart Guide / Festool Guide. Are there any others?

[slarti42uk]

Hi All

I'm looking into ordering the EZ Smart guide system from the states but I wanted to see if there are any alternatives closer to home. I mention Festool in the subject mainly to say that I've seen, I like, I have no chance of affording!

I am a beginner/hobbyist. I do have a circular saw I'm very happy with (Makita 5704RK) and a router (Ryobi ERT 1500VN I think) so I'm looking for a system to use with this kit.

Looking at the videos and photos on the site this system looks great.

Can anyone suggest any others or is this the best option?

 

[Waka]

I'm not going to say that this is better than the others mentioned becasue I have never tried it, but mafell also do a guiderail system.

The other option is to make your own, that would save you a pile of money.

Not sure who but someone on the forum has already done this I think.

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi

I used to use the Mak with a Trend guide and then made up a spacer to save me marking the cut up each time.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Paul Chapman]

You can see the Mafell stuff here http://www.nmauk.com/mafell/mafell.html

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Scrit]

For other systems take a look at Bosch, Mafell and Makita (who've recently introduced an innovative new system). I have the Bosch and it's so-so, mainly because there have been problems with the saw (model GKS68B - now withdrawn). The Bosch rail system is no better than, but also no worse than the Festool, having used both. The Mafell stuff looks interseting, especially as some of their saws come with the sort of febce you can use for cutting shadow/expansion joints in laminate flooring - and having looked at their stuff I'd say it's as well neiled together as anything that Festool make.

Scrit

 

[Vormulac]

I can't suggest any other options, but I can't imagine you'd be disappointed with the EZ system, I have it, as do several others on here and can't praise it enough (although there is plenty of that on the forum already if you do a search :lol: ).

Good luck with whatever you decide.

V.

 

[chippy1970]

I have the Festool system and it is the dogs doodahs.

I would check to see if you can get a Makita rail as I have the Makita 5703RK and I am sure they make a rail for it.

If you need the rail to work with your router also then you might be better with the one you have suggested.

 

[engineer one]

i have one of mafell saws, the one with the flexible guide, and it is very good. you can now buy one with a small cross cut guide too.

mine is the 40 and as it says it cuts up to 40 mm worktops.

however to start out, why not make your own.

screw a two lumps of plywood together. basically you want a piece of 18 mm about 4-6inches wide and below that a piece of 12mm about 12 inches wide. make sure the 12mm overlaps the 18 by more than the width of your saws base. once glued and screwed together, then run the saw against the narrow piece. this then gives you a guide that you can line up with your cutting. make your first one about 1220 long, and see how you get on.

this will save you bundles, and if you make it double sided, you can use your router on the other side.

paul :wink:

 

[slarti42uk]

Thank you all for the replies.

Well I can't seem to find a Makita rail system online anywhere. Don't know if someone has a link.

I'm currently using the circular saw with a Perform guide from Axminster. It has produced very good results. Clean, minimal breakout and pretty square. The only down side is not that I can't get accurate results but the time it takes to do so. Looking at the videos of the CabinetMaker it seems accurate, quick and repeatable (with the offsets).

Thank you for the sugestion of the guide jig also. I feel that it is only one part of what I need :wink:

Well thank you all for the feed back. I think I'm settled on the EZ system. Now I just need to decide which bits :lol:

CabinetMaket - Yes
Smart Router Kit - Yes
SGS-100" - mmm think so???
Power Bench - Would love to!! (anyone here have this?)

Thanks

 

[Scrit]

I would check to see if you can get a Makita rail as I have the Makita 5703RK and I am sure they make a rail for it.

If you need the rail to work with your router also then you might be better with the one you have suggested.

The Makita with the rail system is the new (and expensive) SP6000K1 which is designed specifically for use with a rail, presumably hence the fancy ally base plate. The rail system is new and I'm told it doesn't work with any other Makita saws at present (looking at the 5700RK it appears to have a different base plate).

Personally I'm dubious for the need or advantages in using a router (or for that matter a jig saw) in conjunction with a rail and I'd be interested to know why there is any perceived advantage in doing so and for what tasks. Could someone please tell me (I'm not looking for an argument, here, but I'm really curious)? I did buy an adaptor for my smaller Bosch router a number of years back. It has never been used!

I still own a Bosch guide rail and saw and I've used the Festool system on quite a number of occasions as well as having used the (now defunct) Elu/deWalt system a few years back, so at least I can compare them. IMHO there is no fundamental difference in quality, accuracy or straightness between the three rail systems. In fact I doubt that there is any major difference in quality or accuracy between the different rail manufacturers, the difference is in the quality of the portable circular saw which runs on the rail, hence my comments about the Bosch plunge saw I have which I feel suffers from accuracy problems due to rigidity and robustness problems in the steel base plate.

The only other significant differences in the saws are the ease of depth adjustment - I know this to be really easy on the Festools, less so on Bosch products - and the availability or otherwise of a packing piece or anti-splinter shoe to fit to the outboard of the the blade. This device (a piece of hard plastic) in conjunction with the rubber edge strip of the guide rail (a feature common to Festool, Bosch, Elu/DW and Mafell rails) forms in effect a zero clearance insert for the blade to allow relatively chip-free straight cutting of MFC/MF-MDF, veneered MDF, etc. Bosch don't offer such an accessory, can anyone with a Mafell say what they do, and would anyone (other than Dino :lol: ) care to comment on how the EZ-Smart anti-chip inserts compare? This (Festool) plastic packer needs to be replaced each time the blade is changed or sharpened so it might be an expensive addition to the running costs.

Whilst on the issue of quality, has anyone else experienced problems with well-use Festools where the two friction (?) adjuster knobs lock themselves onto the rail, thus locking the saw in the middle of the cut. I've experienced this with two saws (ATF55s) to date and I know of one other person who's got a similar problem with his saw. Do other systems ever suffer from this problem (I know that the Bosch doesn't because it uses a more positively locked adjuster)

I still have an old and superbly accurate Elu MH265 circular saw (190mm blade / 65mm depth of cut) and rail adaptor plate, alright so it's not a plunger, but in reality for most cuts (e.g. crosscutting worktops or trimming doors to size) that matters little, so maybe I should be thinking EZ Smart after all? :shock: :?


A question for EZ-Smart users: How much depth of cut do you lose by adding a rail and saw baseplate adaptor, please?

Scrit

 

[engineer one]

interesting as usual scrit and always such a wide diversity of kit.

on my mafell which has the roll up guide, the rubber strip is replaceable, haven't checked the replacement price recently but i guess it would not be too bad.

my knowledge and experience of the mafell products is that they are accurate, quiet, and the base plate does not flex being a substantial magnesium casting which is well machined.

i have not tried the latest machine but understand that the rails are connectable, and the device is claimed to be better than the festo one, by some.

paul :wink:

 

[slarti42uk]

Well Scrit, these thing sold me on the idea of the router kit. This, this and this.

I know you can make jigs for all of these things but I'm so keen to make furniture I don't want to spend all my spare time making jigs.

 

[Colin C]

I also have EZ and have been very happy with it, I no longer have a table saw ( I dont miss it :wink: ).

I have maded fitted units with it and also helped to fit the boarder on a herringbone floor with and also to help me fit some front doors.

I am a Pro and do it full time

Scrit

I will answer your questions about it tomorrow

 

[engineer one]

scrit i have just oiked out my mafell with the roll up guide, and it has a rubber strip which seems to be replaceable and is held on by what appears to be a form of double sided tape. on further reflection i seem to think it was less than 20 quid to buy a new one. must check, but seems worth it.

as for the router guide i would ask you to take a slightly different view.

as you know from other conversations we have had, there is too much emphasis on power tools over hand, and we the amateurs tend to feel that because we do not get the same amount of time to practice as you pros
we need helpers.

also when you first buy a router it seems very powerful and scary, so you feel if it is held down you will work more effectively and accurately. as we all know the standard fences on many routers are very short, and not to easy to use, so the thought of a rail system is quite a good one. in addition when you start out, you do not understand about routers tipping over and so on, and the need for extra bases.

personally before i had the mafell, i used one of the clamp and guide thingies from america, now by trend, to clean up the ends of boards.
the big hassle is measuring the offset, whereas with a proper router guide of course the offest is known and understood.

whether like so many things we buy after a short time we find a better way of routing i cannot say, but i believe that many router tables are not really an efficient way to use the tool, and as you have said before there are better machines.

not sure that answers that question but it is my view.

paul :wink:

 

[Scrit]

I know you can make jigs for all of these things but I'm so keen to make furniture I don't want to spend all my spare time making jigs.

There's the rub. That may nbe the case with the EZ, but a conventional rail such as that made by Bosch, Festool or Mafell just guides in a strraight line. It is not a system approach. It was really those rails my question was aimed at. I must say I have other ways of achieving the same results - in the first two cases without building jigs (and isn't Dino's grooving (dado) jig a jig when all said and done?)

About the only thing I'd really take Dino to task on is his comparison between the EZ and a "$20,000 slider" (panel saw) which I find to be pure sales BS (based on a fair bit of experience with panel saws). Chalk and cheese and therefore difficult to make a meaningful comparison

Scrit

 

[chippy1970]

SCRIT...

I was just repeating what it says in the latest D & M catalogue.

Its says that a guide rail adapter IS available for the 5703RK so I would imagine that Makita did and might still make an old rail system before they made the new one that you mentioned. Bosch, Dewalt, Metabo, etc etc etc all make rails so why would Makita be any different.

I saw the new SP6000K1 Makita rail plunge saw months ago when I bought my TS55 and that was not the rail I was referring to in my original post.

 

[Scrit]

Chipp

The doubt was because I asked a Makita main dealer early last year if they had a rail system and he told me no, although a plunge one was "in the pipeline" (that became the SP6000K1) - he even gave me a tools catalogue which had no sign of the rail system and showed me a dealer information release on the "answer to Festool". I've just gone back and found the catalogue, it's a 2005 catalogue, and there's no mention of any rail system, but the 5703 shown in the catalogue has a black steel baseplate, whilst the current D&M site shows a machine with an alloy hase plate........ As you say D&M have it on their web site here, list it with the 5703RK as you say (albeit marked "Reduced"), although it does appear to be dissimilar to the rail with the SP6000K1:

Does the adaptor guide supplied for the 5703RK, etc. make the saw run on top of the guide rail and does it have an anti-splinter facility (rubber anti-spelch strip), do you know?

BTW do Metabo do a rail system in the UK? Their site doesn't list a plunge saw but does mention a guide rail as available..... Anyome seen one in the flesh

The most annoying feature of these rail systems is that they all seem to be incompatible with each other. :roll:

Scrit

 

[chippy1970]

Scrit,

Well done on the D & M research you see it is a different rail to the new one.

Yes Metabo do a rail I bought the KS66 saw in a Metabo systainer with one 1500 rail for £199 from protrade. A week later I decided there was too much play in the rail/saw so after posting on here talked myself into getting my first Festool a Ts55 with rails etc etc.

Luckily I sold the Metabo for what I had paid for it.

The Metabo system has a black insert that slides in the rail this has two lugs sticking up that the saw sits on. The trouble with this is the the insert can flex too much so its not as solid as the TS55. It does have adjustment grub screws to take out slack but these are too far from the lugs so it can still wobble.

Oh and the metabo rail has a splinter guard edge but its solid plastic and on mine it didnt quiet push down on what you were cutting like the Festool one.

 

[Scrit]

Another member has pointed out a couple of saws (in Germany) which come in a Systainer and use a Festool-compatible rail, these are branded Spero:

Does anyone know anything more about them?

Scrit

 

[AndyBoyd]

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... e=1&jump=0

Axminster sell these clamps with T slots, It seems to me with a bit of work you can build nice accessory mounts for router saw etc they sell stops etc for it and at 50" long it seems pretty good to me at @ 20 quid

They also do this
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axmi ... -21753.htm

but I cannot see if it has slots,

May be worth a go if your not in the market for a Festool one et al