extracting mdf dust

[Barry Burgess]

Brad this is how the extractor makers get the motor to run at about 50% of its capacity - they starve them of air. I did tests with a clamp meter to see the amperages drawn with no bag, with the supplied bag and with the filter.
With no bag the motor works best but is not practical. The filter area is 10 times that of the bag and is not far off the no bag situation but will deteriorate over time as the filter area is reduced. The bigger the bag the better but a 10 times the surface one is not practical hence the pleated filter.
Converting all the connections to at least 4" is the best way forward to not too difficult to do with PVC piping and a heat gun
This is one I did for my Triton saw above table

If you run 32mm off the 100mm pipe it will only work with low dust volumes else it blocks
Barry

 

[wrightclan]

Actually my top port is 63.5mm--2.5 inches, not as bad as 32mm but still not as good as 4 in.

Brad

 

[JPEC]

:? :? Wow after reading with interest and growing fear, i realise it would probably be safer to hook up my van exhaust to the workshop than do any more projects with MDF untill i sort my extraction 'issues'!! I have a rexon 750w extractor (with 2 micron bag) hooked to an axminster dustbin lid collector. The extractor moves about a coke can's worth of air a minute, and due to space inside i have the bin outside and the extractor inside!?! The 'wrong' way round methinks! I also have a henry for the router/ circular saw etc. but have no idea of it's filtration specs.
Onto the cyclone issue do they have to be metal or could you use a dustbin as the body and cut up another for the cone and ramp etc. I dont do metal!
Does anyone know a good place to get a decent extractor (more than 330ml/min lol) without spending all my planer/thicknesser money?

 

[prawnking]

hi jpec and welcome to the forum
jpec your asking a similar question to what i began with really, and as you can see it sparked of a pritty lengthy debate after a lot of research within my capabilities i have opted for a camvac website here
now i opted for the 286 2motor and i am going to have an interseptor bin also. this cost just over £200 which is fair compared to the other leading workshop vacs for arnd £175 considering it has twice the cfm @ 222cfm and the filtration setup seems pritty good although my one hasnt arrived yet i visited a powertool showroom in cardiff and had a good look. this will be used for tools i currently own

along with this i am currently in the process of sourcing parts to build a 2-3hp cyclone with 0.5m filters and 5-6" ducting, so i will need to upgrade the port on my table saw and this will support my thicknesser.

these as far i can see where the best options for me

best advice like many on here is to get the best you can afford

cheers

shaun

 

[Mike.C]

What about "Workshop air filters", how many members have one of these fitted to pickup the much finer dust that most extractor systems lets back in to the workshop?

I have the Axminster aves2000 http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/6/prod ... -21188.htm and it works extremely well.

IMHO a workshop dust extraction system is not complete if you do not have some sort of filter, but you do not have to spend huges amounts of money on one, because i seem to remember that Tony (I think it was) made his own, which if i have got it right, works very good. (Sorry but i could not find the thread to this). Coming to think of it there might be one or two others who did the same.

So if this is the case, why did i spend £400+ on mine? Well i didn't, it was bought for me when i was in the US.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Scrit]

The only thing I have against them is that I stand an equal if not greater chance of filtering the dust through my lungs BEFORE that ceiling dust sucker has had a chance to do its work. They can only be effective as a secondary backup to a good primary DX system. The place at which to catch the dust is where it's made - not when it's already in the air you breathe :shock:

Scrit

 

[Mike.C]

Scrit,

They can only be effective as a secondary backup to a good primary DX system. The place at which to catch the dust is where it's made - not when it's already in the air you breathe

I agree with you 100%, you have to catch as much of the dust as you can at the source. If you look, you will see that i said:

"IMHO a workshop dust extraction system is not complete if you do not have some sort of filter"
Meaning you add this to any system that you already have, and that it is there to catch any dust that the dust extractor does not contain, even if it is only a small amount.
because lets face it, unless you have a mega buck system, of the kind that commercial premises use, some of the very finest dust is going to get past your extractor, and if you do not have an air filter you are going to breath this in. On the other hand, if you do have a filter, like me you may be happy in the knowledge that the air filter will catch 99% of it.

As for any other dust, my Trend Airshield catches most of that. Going to all this trouble and expensive may be a belt and braces excersize, but it is worth it.

Finally as you say there's a good chance that your lungs may filter the dust before it gets to the filter. But your lungs will be filtering a lot more if the dust extractor lets the dust gets by it and you don't have a air filter.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Scrit]

Finally as you say there's a good chance that your lungs may filter the dust before it gets to the filter. But your lungs will be filtering a lot more if the dust extractor lets the dust gets by it and you don't have a air filter.

Mike - I've always disliked those hang on the ceiling jobbies because they're further away from the dust production that my lungs are. Ergo my original comment

Scrit

 

[Mike.C]

Scrit, don't get me wrong, i know exactly what you mean. It's just that since the filter was installed i have noticed a hugh difference in air quality, and there is a notable difference in dust on the shelves etc.

On the other hand i read somewhere that the dust that does you most harm, is so small and light that it never lands (is this correct?) and so would not cause the dusty shelves anyway.

Another thing i like about the air filter, is that you can set it to run on for a couple of hours after you leave the workshop, and as it causes the air to run in a cyclone, it will remove a lot of dust from the workshop even when you are not there.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Barry Burgess]

Sorry I did not get my mark one version of the cyclone completed today - got side tracked - had to make a wall cabinet first but this is were I am at

I have completed the collection bucket on casters and the Ikea cone has a 6" connection done and the air outlet to the extractor is complete.
Hopefully tomorrow I will join the cone to the drum. I am considering cutting the drum 2/3 of the way down to get the right ratios and cutting the top off the Ikea cone to fit the two together - but tomorrow is another day???
The input to the cyclone I have a 1m piece of kitchen extractor in the garage - is 80mm X 150mm ( I would have liked 80 X 175) but it will do. Will have to cut the drum to allow the input ramp to work. Hopefully more tomorrow.

 

[nickson71]

It's definately looking interesting Barry ....... looking forward to your tests

My Boss was wondering if I could use more common bits for my cyclone (yet to be started)

 

[JPEC]

Thanks for your input Shaun,
I have to say the camvac sounds good except for the noise factor. I am already half deaf from working with brush motors for years, and i do like the lack of noise from my rexon. i just need something that shifts a lot more air that i can mount on the outside of the workshop to bypass all the filter hassles.What i am really after is a 3hp extractor that will be able to cope with the demand when i (hopefully) move into a larger workshop and put in ducting to each machine. I am planning to get a scheppach p/t and panel saw as a lot of my work is with (the dreaded) MDF and veneered 8x4 sheets.
At the moment in my (shed) workshop i have to cut 8x4's with my skillsaw connected to the henry vacuum, but this only catches about half(if i'm lucky) of the dust. After reading Bill Pentz's site I now realize the error of my ways!!!
Oh for a big workshop full of shiny new machines!!!!
Hope you get on well with the camvac.

Julian

P.s. Does anyone know if the charnwood extractors are any good.I've seen a 3hp on ebay for a couple of hundred squids. Is it worth it?

 

[Woodythepecker]

Hi Julian, welcome to the forum.

Regards

Woody

 

[Barry Burgess]

Not enough time today but I got the cycliner and cone attached just the input and ramp to do

 

[DaveL]

Barry,

That is looking good.

I didn't know that IKEA sold cyclone parts, what do they think they are selling? 8-[

 

[engineer one]

the real question is do ikea know they are selling cyclone bits???
:lol: :lol: :lol:

looking good barry, hoping to have some more answers later this week,
will pm you
paul :wink:

 

[Barry Burgess]

Julian if noise is a problem build yourself a baffle

With your existing situation why not use a mini cyclone - it will give your Henry a break and improve the suck

or

If you require further details PM me
Barry

 

[Barry Burgess]

Thanks Dave and Paul - this is just mark1 so let the testing begin. Dave you know the hassle it is for a woodworker to build a cyclone - I have opted for the woodworkers option - the metal works would not be happy. I have applied three times at my local college to do the welding course but not enough takers to run the course. - its a pity
Barry

 

[Barry Burgess]

Julian

P.s. Does anyone know if the charnwood extractors are any good.I've seen a 3hp on ebay for a couple of hundred squids. Is it worth it?

Julian check if the impellor on the Charnwood is metal - most these days are plastic - a no no by Bill's standards.
I paid £150 delivered ( or was it £165) for a 3HP dual extractor on Ebay.
Keep looking
Barry

 

[ivan]

Despite all the extra vacuum you get from a universal motored vac, the supplied hose usually cuts the airflow significantly (fast flow in small pipe = high resistance). This may not be a problem when doing the carpet when the airflow is filtered through the carpet pile. If you can, use a bigger bore hose from the vac to the tool, or at least close to the tool. Keep hoses as short as you can. This will move more air, *Even If* the tool has a rerstrictive port (like a router)

I decided to try this after looking at a Festool workstation vac (only looking) at a show last year. This puts a convenient dangly vac hose over the work area, hanging from an tall arm fixed to the vac. This looked about 2" diameter. The smaller dia. tool hose plugs into this, and need only be about 3 ft long.