Extending Dining Table - Timber Selection (page 3)

[OPJ]

Exactly! Not only do you save timber and money but, it's so much easier than drawing out a full-size rod on a sheet of MDF. Of course, there are times when you need to work from a rod and SketchUp cannot help you there. But, I do prefer to use SU for the initial design stages.

 

[Steve Maskery]

In that case, I need to make the slots deeper in the stretcher rail to accommodate the widest part of the taper.

Are you sure about that? I'd cut a few pieces of cardboard out, cross-section of what's going on, if I were you.

I think I get it now!

Are you sure about that, too? 'Cos I don't think you have, quite yet. You're getting there though, the penny is about to drop.
S

 

[OPJ]

Alright, Steve, I admit I still haven't quite got it yet... Part of the problem is I'm trying to do three drawings at once - and, for some reason, I find myself trying to use the Orbit function on the UKW forums...

Let's go back a couple of steps...

The leaves have to rise by 19mm to ensure that they are level with the (main) top when they are extended. So the taper must be 19mm over the length of the pull-out. As the leaf is withdrawn, the main top is lifted up and up, until the leaf is fully extended, when the top drops back down the 19mm so that it sits flat on the runners again.

Okay. 19mm thick boards giving 38mm with the centre board. Each leaf needs to rise by 19mm so, if my runners are 19mm thick at the narrow end, they should 38mm at the other right :?:
However I've worked this out, they are slightly thicker... :?

I'm also trying to simulate the physical movement of an individual leaf in SU, which isn't easy. From what I can tell though, the leaf and runners remain parallel up until the point at which the leaf is clear of the top, at which point it should rise up to be flush.

Obviously, the rails keep things parallel... :-k I still don't see how the runners can rise enough to keep the leaf parallel, without fouling the centre board.... Hang on. Bugger! I've drawn the tapers wrong, haven't I - they shouldn't be flush against the underside of the centre board!! :roll:

 

[Steve Maskery]

For goodness sake, Olly, just give me a phone call tomorrow!

Edit - More Twaddle Removal has been done here.

Make a 1:5 mockup.

And give me a ring or you'll be here 'til Christmas.

Edit - And maybe that way you can help me get it straight, too. And to think, I had one of these many, many years ago.
S

 

[xy mosian]

Ok!.

The top surface of the runners, attached to the leaves, is parallel to the top surface of the table.

The slot in the table frame, to take the runners, is deep enough that the leaf, in the closed position, is resting on the frame.

When the leaf is fully extended the depth of the runner is such that the upper surface of the leaf is flush with the upper surface of the table top. While the top remains in its original position with relation to the frame, and the floor. The top is relatively free to move vertically to allow withdrawal of the leaves.

Take a look at the image I posted of the leaf taken from an angle. Careful study will give an idea of the runner shape. I do not think that the curve is strictly necessary.

xy.

p.s.

The long grain runner is sliding across the grain at the bottom of the slot in the rail. A slippery insert here could make the action more silky, perhaps a piece of Formica, or similar, or even a hardwood plug.

xy

 

[OPJ]

Damn! I just typed a reply but, obviously didn't hit 'Submit' - that's how well things are going for me right now!! :x

Thanks again for your replies, guys. My apologies for my short-sightedness...

The top surface of the runners, attached to the leaves, is parallel to the top surface of the table.

Is it parallel along the whole of its length? I only ask because, in the photos, it looks (to me, anyway!) as though it's only parallel to a point, at which it tapers off. Or, the rail is set and an angle and the short taper is parallel with the the top leaves. Could be an illusion.

Thanks for the tip on Formica, I will give that a try.

I'm gonna have to start cutting some cardboard and gluing bits of softwood together soon. My 'shop is full of beech and my heads too full of c**p right now though. Steve, I'll probably give you a call some time next week when I've got the mock-ups on the go - that should give you some time to get the paracetamols ready!!

 

[Steve Maskery]

Olly, it's the taper bit that's parallel

That is, the tapered part at the end, to which the leaf is attached, is parallel with the top of the table (ie it's level). That means that the main direction of the rails is very slight down wards towards the centre of the table, like a very flat V.

The angle of that V is determined by the thickness and length of the leaf.

I think I'm not talking ******** today.

S

 

[xy mosian]

Yup!.

Top surface of runner(s) is parallel with the top surface of the table for its full length.

Any variation on thickness takes place on the underside, nearest the floor, in use.

xy

 

[Steve Maskery]

Top surface of runner(s) is parallel with the top surface of the table for its full length.

y

Er, surely not? If the leaf is to be levl, and it's on a tapered section, then the rest of the rail must be very slightly downward? Or am I having another Senior day?

One of us is going to have to draw this up.
S

 

[OPJ]

One of us is going to have to draw this up.

Trust me; I've been there and it doesn't get you anywhere!! :wink:

I'm glad you asked the question though because I was feeling puzzled once again! Don't know why I didn't think of this before but I consulted Joyce's "Bible" earlier and it is as you last described, with the taper running parallel to the top and the bearers set on a slope.

I'm feeling a lot better about this now, so, thanks guys.

 

[OPJ]

There is one more question I have, regarding the draw-leaf design...

Obviously, the grain of the top and leaves is running across the width of the top, rather than it's length. I assume the positioning of the travel stops is critical so, how do you allow for expansion and contraction?

I've now sent a quote for this job and I'm waiting to hear back. I'm also hoping I've persuaded her to go with brown oak, which means I can clear out some of the narrow offcuts I've got piled up at college! :wink:

 

[Steve Maskery]

Olly
The travel stops are not that critical. If you allow an extra inch, that will be more than adequate. You pull the leaf out, the top drops back into place, you push the leaf in. It's not going to go anywhere.
S

 

[OPJ]

With the basic design out of the way then, I'd now appreciate some feedback on timer selection. She's sent me two photo's of her existing floor and she wants the table to match this as close as reasonably possible:

One with a flash:

One without:

I'll admit I'm trying to push the idea of brown oak, simply because I have bits and pieces left over! (I'd still need to buy some more for the top and legs). This is something I've been making at college, with a coat of Danish Oil on:

As far as ordinary English Oak goes, this is the best photo I can find. Again, it was finished with Danish Oil, even though it looks very light:

She admits that the quality of her photos aren't excellent (neither are mine!) but, her floor is apparently somewhere between the two; perhaps closer to the one with the flash.

Her first reaction was that my cabriole legs are too dark, while I don't think the rails are that far off...

Any thoughts, anyone? She would like to see some lighter options but, I'm concerned English oak will be too light and I really want to avoid staining if I can help it! :?

 

[xy mosian]

Hi,

Thankfully, Wood is Wood. Unless you use a gloss colour from Dulux, or anyone else, the colour will change with the direction the light is falling on it. That is the beauty of the stuff.


French polishers used to apply finishes in the final resting place of the piece. Of course I don't recommend that route. But any finish you apply will likely change in shade over time anyway. I have seen the shade of a wooden table change through the applied finish, think of sunlight fading a table top, except where the Aspidestra was.

Best of luck getting some agreement.


xy

 

[MikeG.]

The only way to match Olly is to go and visit with a whole lot of samples. These will have been finished with a whole lot of different finishes, inc. dyes and waxes, oils, lacquers, even varnishes etc. Lay them down on the surface you are matching so that they catch the same light in the same way, and make a judgement.

When you are choosing, you have to allow for it darkening over time.........so it is pretty much guesswork anyway, unless you keep a library of samples for years and years.

Mike

 

[OPJ]

Okay, thanks guys. I knew you were going to say something like that, Mike! :roll:

I think my best bet would be to buy a Trial Pack of spirit stains from Axminster (something I should've done with the Blanket Chest...). Staining English Oak looks like the best way to go. I've got a few scraps in the workshop and there are plenty of bits of brown oak at college, if needed. My shopping list at Axminster is quickly building up now! :?

I'll also oil some bits of oak, just in case. Ironically, this table is actually for Pete's mother - must be something about the 'Soft Moose' clan and staining...! :wink: