Experiences/ideas please - Cable-less house vac cleaners

[AES]

OK, I/we have been caught (again!) and I for one am getting really fed up! (i.e. battery unit has packed up but the unit is fine then find you can't replace the battery pack). That really DOES get on my wick! :x

Current: We have an upright-type vac (carpet cleaner + removable hand unit), nominal 36V Li-Ion, 2500 mAh 7 cell unit.

6 months out of warranty, won't hold an acceptable charge any more. The appointed servicing company tells me that IF the unit was still in Warranty they'd just swap it, 1 for 1 with a new one. Why? Because the OEM ("somewhere in Asia") deliberately will NOT make spare battery packs available to them, so they can't sell me one! "Pah, humbug" (says I)!!!!

So web searches reveal that I can buy 7 off separate cells at that rating made by Sanyo, Samsung, etc (so good quality) for about 70-80 quid + postage. BUT more web searches show (several times) "Do NOT solder these cells"; AND the only battery pack "builders" I can find on line "only" rebuild NiCad or NiMh packs, NOT Li-Ion packs.

So a new cleaner then? Perhaps, depending on what you ladies & gents have to say. Details:

House on 3 stories, about 150 square metres (not square feet please note), mix of hard floors (tiles,parquet, etc) and fitted carpets + "loose" rugs.

Have looked at various comparison sites (more interested in performance than price right now) and highly rated seem to be Dyson and Shark (various models), + to a lesser extent Bosch and Phillips. Plus a couple of others (unknown names to me).

Have seen the Dyson V10 "Powerhead" at a good price locally, and to me/us, a BIG advantage to Dyson is that they WILL sell you a spare battery pack if needed. OTOH, some say Shark is better than Dyson but I can't find out if you can get spare battery packs for them.

There's also a "new" (to Switzerland) Dyson V11 model out, haven't found any reviews yet, but there's something about it coming together with a 2nd battery pack to give 60 mins run time. No idea on local prices yet, but as above, right now that's less important than FINALLY getting away from scrapping perfectly good tools "just" because the battery has packed up - NO, we're NOT millionaires but scrapping perfectly good tools that "just" need new batteries really DOES annoy me.

We do still have (and will probably keep) a cabled Dyson household vac too (for "high days and holidays")!

I know there's at least a couple of members here who have professional knowledge of this market, plus like my wife and I, I guess everyone here has their own domestic vac anyway, so any comments/ideas/personal experiences will be most gratefully received.

TIA

 

[Garno]

https://sharkclean.co.uk/

Any of those would serve you well.

We have had ours for a few years now and it is still as good as new with daily usage. Also great for pet hairs and such things.

We have had the dyson cleaners but after using these we would never go back to them.

Gary

 

[AES]

Thanks for that Garno. Looks interesting. Seen some good reviews of Shark too (but not sure yet if they're available here except on-line). I haven't been through the whole web site you linked to (yet). But do you happen to know if they sell spare battery packs please?

AND a P.S./Update to my OP:
It seems that Dyson do NOT sell spare batteries, after all, I got confused. It seems the model V11 comes with 2 battery packs as part of the initial buy, but Dyson do NOT sell spares - apparently "Mr. Dyson" says that their packs last 15 years after which time you'd want to buy a new vac anyway.

My response? "Well maybe, but then why not guarantee the battery pack/s for 15 years then?"

Obviously (I guess), no one would offer a 15 year guarantee on any battery pack (no one would expect or believe that). So why talk about a 15 year battery lifetime then? (And don't come up with that common "it all depends on the user" argument either, please Mr. Dyson Sir. Maybe it's me, but 15 years sounds just like Marketing Flower Arrangers' BS to me)!

A 15 years battery life is an unreasonable expectation (I think), but to me the 30 months life that the current vac has just experienced is also unreasonable/unacceptable.

 

[Garno]

Thanks for that Garno. Looks interesting. Seen some good reviews of Shark too (but not sure yet if they're available here except on-line). I haven't been through the whole web site you linked to (yet). But do you happen to know if they sell spare battery packs please?

I genuinely do not know.
We got ours after a mail drop, all that stuff usually goes into the bin without me ever looking at what has dropped through the letter box, but for some reason or other it caught my eye, If memory serves me right we got an amazing deal on it and hence the purchase.

It has been one of our better purchases.

 

[sammy.se]

Costco stocks, and occasionally have good deals on Shark.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[Rorschach]

That seems awfully expensive. Good quality 18650 cells are only a few £'s each.

 

[Garno]

I have just checked and it seems as though you can get additional/replacement battery packs https://sharkclean.co.uk/customer-care/

 

[Droogs]

what cells do your vac battery unit use?

 

[AES]

That seems awfully expensive. Good quality 18650 cells are only a few £'s each.

If you're referring to my OP Rorschach, then from my searches it's true you can get 18650 cells (what my vac uses) from China for around only about a couple of USD each. BUT:

1. Not 2500 mAh;

2. Not the "quality" names (like Sanyo, just manufacturers unknown to me);

and:

3. Only if you buy 1,000 off (literally). Smallest qty I could find at such low prices was 300 off.

To get quality, and 2500 mAh, and only 7 off (I only need 7 but actually I'd have to buy 8 off as the smallest qty I could find) I'd have to pay just under USD 10 each, plus postage, hence my figure in the OP

AND anyway, if soldering is not "permitted", how the h---! am I going to wire them up?

 

[MikeK]

I shopped around locally for a cordless house vacuum and was looking at the Dyson V10. The big downside for me, aside from the ridiculously high price, was the built-in battery and long charge time. I was also interested in the Shark cordless, based on adverts, but none of the German stores stocked it.

I took a chance and ordered the Shark IF250EUT because it came with two batteries, additional batteries were available, and it had good ratings. It arrived three days after I ordered it.

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07D45J8W7/

Almost two years later, the Shark is still going strong and we haven't had any problems.

 

[Rorschach]

That seems awfully expensive. Good quality 18650 cells are only a few £'s each.

If you're referring to my OP Rorschach, then from my searches it's true you can get 18650 cells (what my vac uses) from China for around only about a couple of USD each. BUT:

1. Not 2500 mAh;

2. Not the "quality" names (like Sanyo, just manufacturers unknown to me);

and:

3. Only if you buy 1,000 off (literally). Smallest qty I could find at such low prices was 300 off.

To get quality, and 2500 mAh, and only 7 off (I only need 7 but actually I'd have to buy 8 off as the smallest qty I could find) I'd have to pay just under USD 10 each, plus postage, hence my figure in the OP

AND anyway, if soldering is not "permitted", how the h---! am I going to wire them up?

Samsung cells (pretty much the best you can get) are around £3-5 each sold in the UK. Price depends on quantity of course but even just buying 2 cells is less than £4 per cell.

They say no soldering because your standard soldering iron will take too long to heat the cell and will trigger the safety fuse before the solder flows. A heavy duty soldering iron will work fine though, I have done it many times to rebuild battery packs.

Are you sure it's 7 cells? Even at full charge that doesn't put out 36v, unless the circuit board is boosting the voltage.

I would be willing to bet you could rebuild the battery pack quite cheaply yourself if you were willing to put in the effort, you may not be able to use the OEM charging system though.
Guess it depends on your technical skill and whether you are willing to take the chance. For me it would be a no brainer as I have nothing to loose, then again I have the soldering iron and a big stack of high quality cells at my disposal.

 

[Droogs]

Andy look here

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333373784421 ... olid=11000

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/333465428629?c ... fAQAvD_BwE

 

[Jake]

We've got a Bosch one, it's ok, no match for a cabled one but less hassle for a quick spin around. Anyway it takes standard Bosch 'Power 4 All" battery packs - not something I am otherwise familiar with but they seem to be for household/garden stuff and readily available in various sizes including lots bigger than the two 3Ah which came with it.

But re-celling sounds like a good idea if the rest of you existing one is otherwise good.

 

[Sideways]

Are you sure it's 7 cells? Even at full charge that doesn't put out 36v, unless the circuit board is boosting the voltage.
.

I'd also expect at least 8, possibly 10 cells if they are claiming 36V

I haven't had reason to look, but if you could find "tagged" cells (small metal tabs already spot welded to the ends, used for industrial applications) it would be easier to solder wires onto the tags than onto the ends of the cells themselves.

 

[Sawdust Sam]

That seems awfully expensive. Good quality 18650 cells are only a few £'s each.

If you're referring to my OP Rorschach, then from my searches it's true you can get 18650 cells (what my vac uses) from China for around only about a couple of USD each. BUT:

1. Not 2500 mAh;

2. Not the "quality" names (like Sanyo, just manufacturers unknown to me);

and:

3. Only if you buy 1,000 off (literally). Smallest qty I could find at such low prices was 300 off.

To get quality, and 2500 mAh, and only 7 off (I only need 7 but actually I'd have to buy 8 off as the smallest qty I could find) I'd have to pay just under USD 10 each, plus postage, hence my figure in the OP

AND anyway, if soldering is not "permitted", how the h---! am I going to wire them up?

Quality 18650s for $4.50 each and you can buy any quantity you want and no delivery charge from China. Ordered loads of stuff from here and the last and always turns uo.

https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/100 ... 6v-2100mah

 

[Sawdust Sam]

Are you sure it's 7 cells? Even at full charge that doesn't put out 36v, unless the circuit board is boosting the voltage.
.

I'd also expect at least 8, possibly 10 cells if they are claiming 36V

I haven't had reason to look, but if you could find "tagged" cells (small metal tabs already spot welded to the ends, used for industrial applications) it would be easier to solder wires onto the tags than onto the ends of the cells themselves.

Might work

https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/100 ... der-case-w

 

[AES]

Thanks for all the input guys.

I have a hospital appointment this A.M. and will respond with Q's, etc later on today.

Many thanks

 

[AES]

OK, I'm back again, and thanks to everyone for the inputs so far, especially re available 18650 cells, AND also the experiences with complete vacs. Especially good to see that Shark units are available in Germany (the Swiss/German etc, borders for shopping, etc, open today)!

First off, my apologies to everyone re the voltage. As you'll see from the pix below, it IS 7 cells, BUT it's THIRTY Volts, not 36V as I wrote. Very much a case of "WARNING: Engage brain before operating keyboard!" I'm afraid. Mea culpa.

OK. As you can see, the unit has both a separately powered "carpet sweeper" head (own motor), plus the "suck-only" unit with it's own motor. I guess that's one reason why the charge never lasted all that long from new, especially as on our thick carpets you have to use the "Hi" instead of "Lo" setting. (It now runs for about 1 minute on the "Hi setting BTW, but only managed about 15-20 minutes when brand new).

Also I find it particularly galling that the original designers clearly went to great lengths to make the batt pack easily changeable by "1 monkey in 2 minutes" - just 2 x Torx screws to get down to the level shown above, and just 3 more to separate all 7 cells from the PCB and casing. So WHY not sell new batt packs then??? Arrrrgggghhhh!!!!

Anyway, I THINK what we're going to do is buy a new, (hopefully better) vac for the house - Shark looks a favourite; AND I MAY try and build a new pack (depending on your answers below); OR maybe scrap the whole thing and keep just the motors for some other (as yet unknown - may come in useful later - project).

OK, re soldering cells. I've done that before (with NiCads in my model aero days) and found that using a big (100W) iron and getting in and out VERY quickly, it works OK - with NiCads anyway. But with their reputation, I'd still be very nervous of Li-Ions though. I know of at least one case of a full-size aircraft accident where a freighter loaded with Li- cells caught fire while airborne and was a total hull loss (but I think they were Li-Po s not Li-Ion s though).

But from the (very little) I know about Li-Ion cells, the completed pack must be "balanced" after the 7 cells are soldered up. Correct? OK, but what's that please? Is it balancing for voltage, output amperage, or temperature, or what? And how do I do that/with what equipment/instruments please? Bear in mind that I'm far from being an experienced electrical/electronics engineer please (lumps of iron or ali all thrashing around together are more my mark).

Rorschach and Droogs have come up with much better cell prices than I did - thanks both (for e.g. my local equivalent of what Radio Spares in UK are/used to be only listed 18650 cells up to 1500 mAh), and as to tagged cells, I found none, found button tops. I guess tagged cells must be much easier to solder?

As always, any more comments/advice much appreciated.

TIA

 

[woodbloke66]

We've had Dyson V10 for a few years and it's SWIMBO's favourite toy. The battery packed up a while ago so we looked online at Amazon etc. Turns out the cheapest place to get a pukka battery is Dyson itself, who had all our details on their 'puter and when ordering she also had a pleasant conversation with a bloke on the other end of the dog n'bone who was scathing about the 'knock off' so called 'deals' on t'interweb - Rob

 

[Mrs C]

The hand held Dysons are brilliant for what they are, however you do need a reasonably clean house to start with.

Our kitchen floor seems to be a magnet for shavings, bits of hay, horse hair etc. which the Dyson couldn’t cope with - it would jam more than it would vacuum. I have gone back to a corded Miele which just gobbles up everything without complaint.

If anyone can recommend a cordless vacuum that can cope with less than domesticated owners I would be eternally grateful!