Everyone Vote in Scotland Independance

[finneyb]

Brian ,I think it will be Cameron and a few others that wont need laxitives,not Alex Salmond

I can partly agree with you - if a Yes vote Cameron has another nail in his coffin as PM and the Westminster MPs North of the Border are redundant. Which is probably not a bad thing - we now have Scottish MPs voting on non-Scottish issues at Westminster - why?

I do think the three Westminster leaders going to Scotland was a mistake, it just fanned the flames - it's a Scottish issue let the population with their local elected members decide.

But Salmond has bitten off far more than he can chew if he gets a Yes vote. Independence is a massive undertaking - from my perspective I want no half measures or back peddling designed to up the Scotland take of the budget. If its a Yes vote we want a clean break as soon as possible, then we can all re-organise and move on. I strongly suspect we will see back peddling by Salmond eg we don't feel we have a mandate for full Independence as we only got a very small majority.

Brian

 

[Silverbirch]

One thing that does surprise me is the SNP's insistence that they'll stay in the eu. For one they'll have to reapply for membership, which will mean adopting the Euro (which they don't want) and they'll be vetoed, anyway - and for two it hasn't dawned on them that half of the regulation they think comes from their dictators in Westminster actually comes from their dictators in Brussels. If they think their financial calculations are correct, they'll be net contributors anyway - why queue up to give your money away for no conceivable benefit?

Don`t let the facts cloud the issue! Scotland at the moment is full of YES stickers, posters, pennants on cars etc etc. Should an alien touch down in my town, they would be under the firm impression there weren`t any NO supporters at all. Thankfully, the polls tell a different story.
It is quite worrying that so many people are seemingly carried away on a tide of euphoria, like football supporters, as if this was some kind of Cup Final day, where logic doesn`t enter the equation, all that matters being who you support.
The difference with a Cup Final, though, is that you can always hope for another go next year, should your team lose.

Ian

 

[RogerS]

......
It is quite worrying that so many people are seemingly carried away on a tide of euphoria, .....

Ian

You've hit the nail on the head there, Ian. It is indeed very worrying. I always thought that the Scots were supposed to be canny but the Yes camp seems to have suspended belief and rational thought on a wave of group-hugs.

 

[themackay]

This is the first time in my life where I have felt my vote could actually make a difference

 

[Silverbirch]

Yes, it may well make a difference!

Ian

 

[themackay]

Brian ,I think it will be Cameron and a few others that wont need laxitives,not Alex Salmond

I can partly agree with you - if a Yes vote Cameron has another nail in his coffin as PM and the Westminster MPs North of the Border are redundant. Which is probably not a bad thing - we now have Scottish MPs voting on non-Scottish issues at Westminster - why?

I do think the three Westminster leaders going to Scotland was a mistake, it just fanned the flames - it's a Scottish issue let the population with their local elected members decide.

But Salmond has bitten off far more than he can chew if he gets a Yes vote. Independence is a massive undertaking - from my perspective I want no half measures or back peddling designed to up the Scotland take of the budget. If its a Yes vote we want a clean break as soon as possible, then we can all re-organise and move on. I strongly suspect we will see back peddling by Salmond eg we don't feel we have a mandate for full Independence as we only got a very small majority.

Brian

I agree Scottish MP,s should not be voting on non Scottish issues,I think that is something that might change irrespective of the outcome of the referendum if Labour arnt in power after 2015.

 

[themackay]

One thing that does surprise me is the SNP's insistence that they'll stay in the eu. For one they'll have to reapply for membership, which will mean adopting the Euro (which they don't want) and they'll be vetoed, anyway - and for two it hasn't dawned on them that half of the regulation they think comes from their dictators in Westminster actually comes from their dictators in Brussels. If they think their financial calculations are correct, they'll be net contributors anyway - why queue up to give your money away for no conceivable benefit?

Im not a lover of the EU ,but I dont see an issue with us rejoining if indeed we find ourselves not part of it,why would they not want us one of the top 20 richest countries with large energy reserves,I think we would probably be able to negotiate a good deal.I have no doubt the Scottish Government is well aware a large percentage of regulation comes from Brussels over which we have no say at the moment.

Dont we queue up at the moment to give money away for no conceivable benefit
I dont think we will be vetoed as any metion of that from Europe was a result of pressure from the UK government.

 

[RogerS]

I have to confess that I am on the edge of my seat waiting for the results as it seems to me that it has much more far-reaching effects than the General Election. At least in the General Election, if your party doesn't win this time round then there is always the next. I foresee a sleepless night.

 

[xraymtb]

I wouldn't be sure on there being no EU veto. Many of the larger European countries have separatist movements of their own and the last thing they want is a successful independence movement in Scotland. Spain, France even Germany all have groups that would use this as a precedent to push for their own independence.

 

[marcros]

I have to confess that I am on the edge of my seat waiting for the results as it seems to me that it has much more far-reaching effects than the General Election. At least in the General Election, if your party doesn't win this time round then there is always the next. I foresee a sleepless night.

They are expecting results from about 2am tomorrow with the final result around 06-30 to 07-30 I think

 

[Phil Pascoe]

One thing that does surprise me is the SNP's insistence that they'll stay in the eu. For one they'll have to reapply for membership, which will mean adopting the Euro (which they don't want) and they'll be vetoed, anyway - and for two it hasn't dawned on them that half of the regulation they think comes from their dictators in Westminster actually comes from their dictators in Brussels. If they think their financial calculations are correct, they'll be net contributors anyway - why queue up to give your money away for no conceivable benefit?

Im not a lover of the EU ,but I dont see an issue with us rejoining if indeed we find ourselves not part of it,why would they not want us one of the top 20 richest countries with large energy reserves,I think we would probably be able to negotiate a good deal.I have no doubt the Scottish Government is well aware a large percentage of regulation comes from Brussels over which we have no say at the moment.

Dont we queue up at the moment to give money away for no conceivable benefit
I dont think we will be vetoed as any metion of that from Europe was a result of pressure from the UK government.

The Spanish for one have already stated they will veto - as probably will France and Belgium.

 

[Martin_S]

The trouble with coalitions is that you duck and dive to find a compromise that gives you enough votes to do this or that and within a short amount of time, that mode of operation becomes completely normal and when you are pushed on an issue and the SNP want a referendum in return you decide that staying in business now in exchange for a referendum which the SNP surely cant win in 2 years time is a good deal.

Then 2 years passes and today arrives. Definitely squeaky bum time...

And even if this gamble pays off, there is the EU referendum on the horizon which will probably go badly too.

If only some of these people had enough common sense to stop making these risky deals and the courage to 'go to the country' rather than deal, we would not be looking into the abyss we currently are, both north and south of the border, whatever the outcome.

 

[themackay]

One thing that does surprise me is the SNP's insistence that they'll stay in the eu. For one they'll have to reapply for membership, which will mean adopting the Euro (which they don't want) and they'll be vetoed, anyway - and for two it hasn't dawned on them that half of the regulation they think comes from their dictators in Westminster actually comes from their dictators in Brussels. If they think their financial calculations are correct, they'll be net contributors anyway - why queue up to give your money away for no conceivable benefit?

Im not a lover of the EU ,but I dont see an issue with us rejoining if indeed we find ourselves not part of it,why would they not want us one of the top 20 richest countries with large energy reserves,I think we would probably be able to negotiate a good deal.I have no doubt the Scottish Government is well aware a large percentage of regulation comes from Brussels over which we have no say at the moment.

Dont we queue up at the moment to give money away for no conceivable benefit
I dont think we will be vetoed as any metion of that from Europe was a result of pressure from the UK government.

The Spanish for one have already stated they will veto - as probably will France and Belgium.

While none of the treaties support Scotland's removal, Article 48 of the Lisbon treaty does support Scotland's independent membership. Politics Professor Michael Keating's (full disclosure, old lecturer of mine) and Professor Steven Blockmans, a senior research fellow and the head of the EU foreign policy unit of the Center for European Policy Studies, both confirmed that Article 48 of the Lisbon Treaty, which allows EU members to agree to make amendments through an 'ordinary revision procedure', was a route through which Scotland could gain membership of the EU. Under Article 48, Scotland could be permitted to join the EU by 26 March 2016, which is the day Alex Salmond says Scotland would officially become independent should the upcoming referendum on independence return a Yes vote.

Dr Nicolas Levrat, head of the Institute of Global Studies at the University of Geneva, has dismissed claims that Scotland could find itself outside the European Union in the event of independence and have to wait to re-apply too. He said that Scotland being ejected from the EU would violate the core values upon which it is founded, adding that the EU was not "one day in and one day off," … "it doesn’t work like that". He also said that the so-called Veto, which No campaigners have claimed could be used by countries like Spain to block Scottish membership, "politically cannot be used".

Dr Levrat also said the consequences of Yes vote on the citizenship rights of Scots, "will not be as dramatic as people pretend": "So we can imagine where Scotland is not under the sovereignty of the UK, is not yet declared as a member state of the EU, but remains, because it was part of the UK, under the umbrella of EU law. That could be a solution."

 

[Self Taught]

Hi All,

I have been following along on the subject. I have noticed, many points, on both sides, that are valid. The post by Ring, on page ten, is a very good reason for keeping allies close at this time. Our family, on my mothers side, comes from the Scottish Highlands. The MacDonald Clan, who fought with King Robert the Bruce, in the battle of Bannockburn, 24, June 1314. Her farther was English, born here in the U.S., his mother eventually returned home to England. Our fathers side of the family came from County Cork. I have mixed feelings on the issue, but have no problems with our ties to The United Kingdom, and see no reason to upset the apple cart, at this turbulent time. I must say this in all honesty I hope the vote is no, as we all look to family, friends, and neighbors. in times of need. I am proud to be an American, of Scotts, English, and Irish decent. Jamey

 

[Silverbirch]

Just a little point of pedantry: I`ve noticed a couple of posters referring to "Scotts".
A native of Scotland is Scottish, or a Scot.
"Scott" is a first name or surname, so if we say "He is a Scott", we mean he is a member of the Scott family.
Sorry, I can`t help it. I`m an ex teacher. Lesson over for today.

Ian

 

[iNewbie]

You guys/gals in Scotland know that if you vote yes and win you have to take Carole Smiley back across the border, eh?

 

[finneyb]

You guys/gals in Scotland know that if you vote yes and win you have to take Carole Smiley back across the border, eh?

And RBS as well, after you paid the bail out costs :lol:

Brian

 

[RogerS]

While none of the treaties support Scotland's removal, Article 48 of the Lisbon treaty does support Scotland's independent membership. Politics Professor Michael Keating's (full disclosure, old lecturer of mine) and Professor Steven Blockmans, a senior research fellow and the head of the EU foreign policy unit of the Center for European Policy Studies, both confirmed that Article 48 of the Lisbon Treaty, which allows EU members to agree to make amendments through an 'ordinary revision procedure', was a route through which Scotland could gain membership of the EU. Under Article 48, Scotland could be permitted to join the EU by 26 March 2016, which is the day Alex Salmond says Scotland would officially become independent should the upcoming referendum on independence return a Yes vote.

Dr Nicolas Levrat, head of the Institute of Global Studies at the University of Geneva, has dismissed claims that Scotland could find itself outside the European Union in the event of independence and have to wait to re-apply too. He said that Scotland being ejected from the EU would violate the core values upon which it is founded, adding that the EU was not "one day in and one day off," … "it doesn’t work like that". He also said that the so-called Veto, which No campaigners have claimed could be used by countries like Spain to block Scottish membership, "politically cannot be used".

Dr Levrat also said the consequences of Yes vote on the citizenship rights of Scots, "will not be as dramatic as people pretend": "So we can imagine where Scotland is not under the sovereignty of the UK, is not yet declared as a member state of the EU, but remains, because it was part of the UK, under the umbrella of EU law. That could be a solution."

A lot of 'could' and 'might' there, my friend. AKA wishful thinking. If I was in your position, I'd be much more happier with 'will' !!

 

[wizard]

who cares who wins

 

[jpt]

All over now just have to wait for the count.

But the winners and losers are already known and have been for a long time.

Winners Scotland with lots more power and English money, losers the English still being ruled by Scottish, Welsh and Irish MPs even though they have their own parliaments and we still wont have ours, oh and yes more of our money will go north of the border.

john