Equipment for a specific project

[Nickyboy65]

Equipment for a specific project



Hi
This is my first post and I’d love to hear your opinion on the following;

We are starting to build a 4 bedroom house with attic rooms on the site of an agricultural barn that we own.
The house is going to be approx. 250m2 excluding the attic, and I have a figure in mind of the cost per square metre (realistically based on a two story dwelling building 10 years ago at our previous house)

My business allows me to spend quite a lot of time on the project and I plan to be as hands on as possible, and one of the many aspects of the build that I would like to be able to undertake myself is carpentry.

I not an experienced woodworker, but feel with the necessary training, practice and right equipment I can achieve my goals which are;

Construct & hang solid oak leg & brace doors
Mould oak skirting boards
Build kitchen units
Build fitted wardrobes
Possibly contract windows (with expert help!)
Possibly build a staircase (with expert help!)

With the above list of jobs in mind my plan was to fit out the garage with the appropriate equipment to facilitate this and sell it on when the project is complete.

I think I’ll need the following:

Table saw
Spindle moulder
Or combination Saw/ spindle moulder
Planner/thicknesser
Window cutter sets
Router & table (I already have a ½” Makita 3612)
Workbench (I already have)
Associated guides, clamps, hand tools etc. etc.

For starters I popped into the Charnwood & then the Axminster showroom the other week to have a look. Ideally I’d like to buy the appropriate level of equipment for the planned work, and don’t want to have bought something either too cheap to do the jobs effectively nor equally too expensive.
I also wondered whether quality second hand machines would be a good option instead (we have 3 phase 415v supply coming into the barn.)

You’re ‘two penneth’ would be much appreciated

 

[CHJ]

I not an experienced woodworker, but feel with the necessary training, practice and right equipment I can achieve my goals

Personally unless your timescales to completion is in years not months I'd say someone is heading for a great deal of heartache.

External doors and windows for starters have to be to certified standards, and there are a lot of factors involving allowances for weather variations in design that are in addition to just the correct shape mouldings etc.
Stairs also have to be to specific design criteria for new builds and quite an art in themselves for good traditional construction.
Where are you going to get "the necessary training," and how long are you factoring in for this?

It's not only the work on the wood but the use of machines such as spindle moulders, these are in a category in themselves that needs a good grounding in safe practice and use.

 

[Droogs]

Hi Nick,
Firstly let me say welcome to the forum, it's a great place to learn from and seek advice, from the many talented people who frequent this woody corner of the aether and to share ones own experience. Your goal while admirable is pretty daunting. It is do-able but as Charlie says, ultimately will take a long time to achieve. This is because every tool whether it has a cable or not has its own learning curve that must be climbed before you can use the tool not only safely and effectively but efficiently. Many think that by getting the lattest electric dodad or even the oldest whatnot they will be inbibed with its spirit and produce astonishing work.
On a project such as yours, if you have no previous experience of woodworking then the matter is compounded by lack of skill and timescales. Perhaps it is best to leave that which needs to meet building regulations (the understanding of which can be a minefield) to those who do it for a living. If you wish to take part in the work needed then let the tradesman know and have it as part of your agreement that you will be his mate and as things progress and you learn you will find they will be willing to let you do and take on more as you gain knowledge and practical skills.
Think of the building process from start to finish for the woodwork involved. First there is the carpenter to do the framing and structure of the building. Then there is the joiner to do the fit-out of the internals of the building once it is weatherproof and finally the furniture/cabinet maker, who makes all the wooden things that will live in it. Consider which of these are the most important to you to achieve for yourself and concentrate on learning the skills to do that part, while helping with the others.
Once you know where you are headed buy the best tools you can get at the price you can afford and practice with them. They say to make a craftsman takes 10 000 hours, now you may not want to be one but stop to think, how long will it take me to reach a level where I can produce something at a quality I would buy to put on display in my home. It may be quite quick or it may not. working wood is one of the most enjoyable and fulfilling pastimes one can have IMHO, the sense of achivement is fantastic. To know you participated in the building of your home and its contents and have provided something so substatial for your family is no mean feat and you are doing it to provide them with somewhere safe and inviting.
I wish you all the best on your journey, it will be enlightening, frightning, exhilirating, sobering, nerve-wracking and ultimately one of the most rewarding experiences of your life. and I know that I can say that every member here will be with you everystep of the way to offer what help they can be it sage advice and knowledge or just light relief. There are many member in and around Oxford who, I am sure would be happy to help you learn, test and try tools before you buy, so that you can at least have a bit of a sense as to what suits you before parting with any cash

droogs

 

[Wildman]

I am a great believer in doing things for myself even if I do not have the expertise, I do believe you can learn on the job provided you are prepared to settle for either a lot of waste or an inferior finish to begin with. It takes years not months to master machines and learn their idiosyncrasies. However should you wish to proceed then I suggest you get some local help and act as an apprentice. Workshop essentials by Steve Maskery would be a good starting point in your learning curve. Generally speaking quality OLD cast iron machines are better value than new "tin" machines. If you have 3 phase electric installed your choice expands exponentially.

 

[Adam9453]

I would have to concur with the comments above, I would leave work that has to meet building regs to the professionals and focus on helping the professionals you employ as much as you can. They may be surprised you want to help but if you follow through and actually help then they will be amazed.
My fiancé and I bought our first house together last year and it was a bit of a wreck and needed everything doing. I got professionals to do everything with me acting as labourer and project manager (interesting combination when you give the orders and make the tea while sweeping up :lol: )
We couldn't afford for the plasterers to plaster the whole house so had to prioritise the downstairs areas so we could get it liveable enough to move in. I knew I had to plaster the rest myself so I asked the plasterers if I could have a go, they smiled and said "sure, just get yourself a trowel and hawk and you can help us". They were very surprised when they arrived the next morning and I was standing there with trowel, hawk, bucket etc ready to pitch in. They gave me small areas to start with and let me help on the larger areas, helping correct my technique and fixing my cock ups as we went. By the time they (and I) had finished the downstairs, I was getting fairly confident.
I started doing the upstairs bedrooms and whilst i was slower than them, I was very happy with the results I achieved. I have now plastered two complete bedrooms and even some friends walls. I'm happy my work is up to scratch now but i'm still a bit slow compared to the pro's (thats to be expected).
As you can tell from my post, I think its a great idea to tackle as much as you can but learn from the pro's you employ, its the cheapest training you'll find

 

[BearTricks]

As a relative beginner I'd probably be comfortable tackling the kitchen units and the wardrobes provided that A) I had a large space in which to do so B) I had well made and probably expensive tools, and C) My space and tools were set up to exact specs to make sure that everything was flat and square.

The other ones I wouldn't even bother because I can imagine the amount of good wood that would end up as sawdust. It can be done, but there's a reason that things like staircase building are practically their own trades.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

 

[xraymtb]

I'm a big advocate of having a go but you need to understand the realities of the situation.

a) It WILL take longer. Likely a lot longer.

b) It WON'T be as good as a professional job - at least not the first few times you do it.

c) It will PROBABLY cost as much of not more to do it yourself.

These likely all apply doubly so if you haven't done any woodworking, don't have tools and don't have someone to show you the way.

That said, if you have the time, can afford the cost and risk of extra costs and have someone who will check your work where it is controlled or important then go for it.

 

[heimlaga]

One of my friends has done what you want to do. Restored a 1840-ies farmhouse and made almost all the woodwork himself to 1840-ies standards with no previos woodworking experience. I taught him a little and he found out the rest himself. The result is absolutely first class. He has been working at it all his sparetime for 5 years and has a little more than one year's worth of work left to do.
He is very talented with all kind of handywork and extremely quick at learning. If you have those abilities it is certainly possible but you will have a very steep learning curve to climp up and you must be prepared to cut up a lot of your finished products for firewood before they become good enough. That was how he learned.
If you lack natural talent and if you aren't a quick learner and lack the ability to learn from repeated failiours without giving up please forget the whole idea because you will never ever succeed.
Only you yourself know the answer to this most importand question.... do you still feel able to do it?

If so you shouldn't worry about certifications. Custom made doors and windows do not have to be approved by anyone. They only need to have insulation values roughly the same as approved windows. Any reasonably skilled woodworker can figure out how to achieve that.

If so I don't think you need a router table. I have made quite a few custom doors and windows for customers without a router. All my machines are purchased secondhand. Some are very old. Though too old or worn machines tend to be laborious to get in working order and that means less time for your project. I suggest you should look at solid cast iron machines less than 60 years old and in decent condition to start with.

You need a very solid spindle moulder equipped with some kind of sliding table or bolt-on tennoning sled. The heavier the better. Forget about everything that is aimed towards hobbyists.
You need a very good planer/thicknesser with long enough tables so you can surface plane a door stile without any trouble.
You need a table saw with some kind of sliding table....or a table saw spindle moulder combination.

May I ask....why does the house have to be that big?
250 square metres is gigantic.....unless you have 10 kids and your old parents in law living with you. Expensive to build. Expensive to heat. Laborious to maintain and keep tidy. A smaller house means less materials and less work....which means a much greater success rate for doityourselfers on a budget.

Personally I would never demolish a barn to build a house if the barn isn't beyond repair. Instead I would build the house besides the barn and keep the barn....or if the barn is very large demolish half of it and repair the other half.
A handy man living in the country always needs outbuildings. They are far more expensive to build anew than to repair. When having some proper outbuildings you don't need as many expensive square metres of dwelling as you don't need to store all your stuff in your house.

 

[MusicMan]

I can't see you selling on what will be a fantastic workshop after you finish the project five or so years hence, have acquired lots of skills and got thoroughly bitten with the woodworking bug. Also, a single and maybe even a double garage will be too small for the equipment you want to get.

So +1 to heimiaga, keep the barn and build separately. Your first job is to convert the barn to your workshop, then use it for the woodwork you do tackle on the house. At the end of the project you might release some of the barn but I bet you'll keep the dream workshop you will have by then!

 

[RobinBHM]

With 3 phase available, I would say buy 2nd hand cast iron machines. If you can afford it buy Wadkin machines or similar as the resale value will be good. Choose a separate planer and thicknesser.

As to the type of projects, kitchen carcases, shaker style kitchen doors -certainly possible. Likewise fitted wardrobes and AV walls. You will need a track saw for carcase work.

T&G doors, I would buy kits and assemble them, county hardwoods for example do oak kits for not much more than the timber.

Skirtings and archs, yes possible although only little saving.

External joinery I would avoid. Buy them from Denmark!

 

[custard]

I not an experienced woodworker, but feel with the necessary training, practice and right equipment I can achieve my goals which are;

Construct & hang solid oak leg & brace doors
Mould oak skirting boards
Build kitchen units
Build fitted wardrobes
Possibly contract windows (with expert help!)
Possibly build a staircase (with expert help!)

It's not realistic.

These are different skills, all with their own specialists. These specialists are both more proficient and more efficient than you, so they can do a better job, for a lower price, and all in a much shorter time.

I appreciate you're excited about this project and would like to be even more involved, plus fitting out a workshop is always fun, but what you're proposing just isn't realistic. Once you get into the thick of project managing this venture you'll have your work cut out just organising and scheduling the other tradesmen, to insert yourself with zero skills into the mix is simply foolhardy.

Good luck.