Elm needed

[stuckinthemud]

I plan on making a replica of an 11th century crossbow. The original was 120cm long, 4cm wide and thick and used an elm or wych elm branch (probably) or sapling. I am having trouble sourcing any elm, can anyone suggest a supplier. I would rather not pay for a board as a stem or branch is best and on a board I only need the wany edge, although then it would need to be quarter sawn . Sorry if I seem a bit fussy, but thanks for looking, Andrew

 

[Woody2Shoes]

No idea but try a Scottish supplier as they seem to have more living elms up there.

 

[Steliz]

There is another post - Have come across some 2"x1" Sycamore - uses? - from a member about Sycamore but it is actually Elm he has a chance of buying. Maybe.....

 

[marcros]

Tree surgeon may be worth a look? Maybe even a wanted as on a forum of tree surgeons?

 

[stuckinthemud]

Have posted a thread on arbtalk

 

[toolsntat]

https://mactimbers.com/Mike's been converting some chunky Elms recently.
Could be some 1/4 sawn with the edge?
In any event I'd talk to him in case he knows of just what you require.
Cheers Andy

 

[Sheffield Tony]

You don't need to go to Scotland. Elms will reach a size big enough to do this job before disease does for them. Over 12" wide boards, that's more difficult.

 

[TheTiddles]

If you need it cut on the quarter... why would a branch be good?

Aidan

 

[stuckinthemud]

The side facing the target acts like a compression strap, squeezing all the timber in the bow, so bow wood needs to be both elastic to bend and able to stretch and able to resist huge compression without damage. To be able to stretch without being ripped apart the side facing the target needs to be an unbroken surface, a clean ring. The most stretchy timber is usually the growth ring immediately beneath the bark. The growth rings must be aligned with the surface facing the target or at 90 degrees to it or the bow will twist as it is drawn.

 

[stuckinthemud]

Branches are tricky to use as they have compression and tension wood and are often very knotty but on a huge tree with primitive tools can be the only option. If you know what you are doing, they can be superior as branches are more flexible than mature stems. The original 11th century bow I want to replicate appears to use a sightly reflexed branch- reflex meaning the bow unstrung curves toward the target and effectively the bow is pulled a few inches further when drawn. So, a branch isn't the best option but it is an option

 

[Sideways]

Interesting to learn that elm has this application. Is yew an alternative ? English longbows making use of the heartwood / sapwood combination as a natural laminate to handle compression and tension when the stave is flexed.
I wonder if it could be worth speaking to a couple of longbow makers to see if they can help you. What you need would be wider / shorter than the staves they need for their own use.

 

[TheTiddles]

I get branch wood for a bow, but isn’t a crossbow made with a metal spring, or are there wood versions too?
Aidan

 

[stuckinthemud]

Yew is the best, unequivocally, a magical bow-wood, except perhaps for osage orange but wytch elm (wytch actually means bendy) was the bow wood of choice before yew replaced it, and it continued to be in use until fire arms replaced archery, I believe the Mary Rose inventory included elm war bows.

 

[stuckinthemud]

Crossbows did use steel from the later middle ages , but not really til the 16th century, nowadays its all carbon fibre, but my interest is in really early crossbows from the 11th to 15th century, that is bows of wood, wood and sinew, and horn and sinew composites

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I think elm can still be grown coppiced to produce 4-6" regrowth despite DED, which I would imagine is good for what you need ? I know at Wimpole NT estate where we used to do green woodwork, such elm was cut for the bast to make seat weaving supplies. Rather at the wrong end of the country for you, and my forrester friend there has taken redundancy

 

[stuckinthemud]

Coppiced elm at 4 to 6" diameter at centre would have been perfect for my needs.

 

[toolsntat]

Coppiced elm at 4 to 6" diameter at centre would have been perfect for my needs.

I see this standing dead in the lanes around me, could you not approach a land owner to see if a recently demised specimen could be taken away in your area?
Cheers Andy

 

[stuckinthemud]

Am in South Wales, its really uncommon here, if I do spot any I will certainly ask if I can cut it.

 

[--Tom--]

May be worth giving Wentwood timber a call, I’ve had some Elm from them before so they may know a source

 

[stuckinthemud]

Also, there can be issues with diseased timber, beetle damage means the wood is useless but fungal damage can be difficult to spot and you only know the elasticity or compression strength is compromised when the bow breaks. I lost 2 apple bows while I was tillering them for no reason and all I can put it down to is the tree was diseased before it blew over