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Correct

No, completely wrong. q.v. Dr Andrew Wakefield who had told the medical world that MMR vaccine was responsible for autism in children. He lost his job and emigrated to Australia but no longer works as a clinician. The rest of the medical world could not look past the methodology he had used to obtain his findings

The Lancet ~ In a statement published on Feb. 2, the British medical journal said that it is now clear that “several elements” of a 1998 paper it published by Dr. Andrew Wakefield and his colleagues (Lancet 1998;351[9103]:637–41) “are incorrect, contrary to the findings of an earlier investigation.
Those two clauses, one of which you agree with, and one of which you heartily contradict, were intended to be read together, as a single sentence; i.e. unanimity is destroyed by a single dissenting voice.
 
I dived in with an (entirely warranted) attack on Wakefield, but I'll admit that I initially read jepho's "The rest of the medical world could not look past the methodology he had used to obtain his findings" as a defence of Wakefield - but I could be wrong? I hope, maybe, I'm wrong?
 
Wakefield is a crank, and, based on his conduct for the trial he ran; should likely have ended up in prison. He undertook highly risky medical procedures on children (where those procedures were not medically indicated - i.e. not necessary for their treatment).

EDIT: For clarity; performing risky medical procedures during clinical trials that are not required as part of a patient's treatment is not something you'll usually get past medical ethics bodies. Doubly so in children because of considerations relating to consent.
He committed fraud for pecuniary gain. Worryingly, he was encouraged and financed by lawyers engaged by families suing vaccine manufacturers. I had used his case as an example to show that the statement made by @John Brown "only takes one maverick scientist to upset the apple cart," was not necessarily accurate.

Dr Wakefield had not gained the appropriate (or any) ethics committee approval for his fraudulent experiments. These were carried out without the knowledge or permission of the subjects or their guardians. Additionally, n=12 so there was insufficient power in this speculative study with an uncontrolled design.
 
Those two clauses, one of which you agree with, and one of which you heartily contradict, were intended to be read together, as a single sentence; i.e. unanimity is destroyed by a single dissenting voice.
Yes, understood. You stated that unanimous agreement was never going to happen and I agreed with that part of your point. The second part may be considered to be true by many but I could cite many cases where it was demonstrably not the case. Andrew Wakefield was an obvious example because as a respected clinician, one would have expected him to be a maverick, upset the apple cart and still not be censured for it. He was lucky to escape jail.
 
Um... no, there is not. Tell me how many climate scientists need to disagree with the so-called consensus before you would consider the opposing viewpoint of equal validity? To ascertain your assessment of valid scientific critique, what status would you want your scientists to have before giving their views credence?

That 97% of climate scientists apparently agree with each other is an unbelievably high percentage. Having worked in one field of science all of my adult life, I can tell you that this ultra high percentage (as near to unanimous as makes no difference) indicates that something is very much awry. My question to you is why have so many people, from an inordinate number of diverse fields and backgrounds, apparently agreed with each other? This level of agreement in any field of scientific endeavour is completely unknown. Note that the subject of climate brings together scientists from multiple disciplines.
So where do you stand on evolution? Do enough scientists believe in that or do the one or two who don't make you think it's not a real thing? Do you maybe think the earth is flat after all? - there are one or two cuckoos with science qualifications who do...
97% isn't that high a percentage if it's real - I imagine more than 97% think that oxygen is necessary for animals to live, would you think that an unrealistic number of believers?
Just out of interest, what field of science did you work in and what were your qualifications / job titles / papers published?
 
I dived in with an (entirely warranted) attack on Wakefield, but I'll admit that I initially read jepho's "The rest of the medical world could not look past the methodology he had used to obtain his findings" as a defence of Wakefield - but I could be wrong? I hope, maybe, I'm wrong?
My use of language. The meaning of my words was that the medical profession could not accept Wakefield's flawed and fraudulent methods. So yes, you were wrong. My apologies to you. I will try to be more explicit in future.
 
That 97% of climate scientists apparently agree with each other is an unbelievably high percentage. Having worked in one field of science all of my adult life, I can tell you that this ultra high percentage (as near to unanimous as makes no difference) indicates that something is very much awry.
So if not enough scientists agree it is not true. But if too man scientists agree it is a conspiracy?

sheesh, who could take your argument seriousl?
 
Yes, understood. You stated that unanimous agreement was never going to happen and I agreed with that part of your point. The second part may be considered to be true by many but I could cite many cases where it was demonstrably not the case. Andrew Wakefield was an obvious example because as a respected clinician, one would have expected him to be a maverick, upset the apple cart and still not be censured for it. He was lucky to escape jail.
Ok, I feel you are willfully misunderstanding what I wrote. There was no "second part" to that point, but I give up.
 
No more than yours (see "Hitchens's razor").

Maybe provide some substantive evidence that the general scientific consensus on climate change "indicates that something is very much awry" (per your own statement).
there you go...

From the book: Why Scientists Disagree About Global Warming: Second Edition: The NIPCC Report on Scientific Consensus

Introduction
Probably the most widely repeated claim in the debate over global warming is that “97 percent of scientists agree” that climate change is man-made and dangerous. This claim is not only false, but its presence in the debate is an insult to science.

As the size of recent reports by the alarmist Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and its skeptical counterpart, the Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate (NIPCC) suggest, climate science is a complex and highly technical subject, making simplistic claims about what “all” or “most” scientists believe necessarily misleading. Regrettably, this hasn’t prevented various politicians and activists from proclaiming a “scientific consensus” or even “overwhelming scientific consensus” that human activities are responsible for observed climate changes in recent decades and could have “catastrophic” effects in the future.

The claim that “97 percent of scientists agree” appears on the websites of government agencies such as the U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA, 2015) and even respected scientific organizations such as the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS, n.d.), yet such claims are either false or meaningless.

Chapter 1 debunks surveys and abstract-counting exercises that allege to have found a “scientific consensus” in favor of the man-made global warming hypothesis and reports surveys that found no consensus on the most important issues in the debate. Chapter 2 explains why scientists disagree, finding the sources of disagreement in the interdisciplinary character of the issue, fundamental uncertainties concerning climate science, the failure of IPCC to be an independent and reliable source of research on the subject, and bias among researchers.

Chapter 3 explains the scientific method and contrasts it with the methodology used by IPCC and appeals to the “precautionary principle.” Chapter 4 describes flaws in how IPCC uses global climate models to make projections about present and future climate changes and reports the findings of superior models that foresee much less global warming and even cooling. Chapter 5 critiques five postulates or assumptions that underlie IPCC’s work, and Chapter 6 critiques five key pieces of circumstantial evidence relied on by IPCC. Chapter 7 reports the policy implications of these findings, and a brief summary and conclusion end this book.

Chapters 1 and 2 are based on previously published work by Joseph Bast (Bast, 2010, 2012, 2013; Bast and Spencer, 2014) that has been revised for this publication. Chapters 3 to 7 are based on the Summary for Policymakers of Climate Change Reconsidered II: Physical Science, an earlier volume in the same series as the present book produced by the Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC) (Idso, Carter, and Singer, 2013). Although brief, this summary of climate science is based on an exhaustive review of the scientific literature. Lead authors Craig D. Idso, Robert M. Carter, and S. Fred Singer worked with a team of some 50 scientists to produce a 1,200-page report that is comprehensive, objective, and faithful to the scientific method. It mirrors and rebuts IPCC’s Working Group I and Working Group II contributions to IPCC’s 2014 Fifth Assessment Report, or AR5 (IPCC, 2014). Like IPCC reports, NIPCC reports cite thousands of articles appearing in peer-reviewed science journals relevant to the subject of human-induced climate change.

NIPCC authors paid special attention to research that was either overlooked by IPCC or contains data, discussion, or implications arguing against IPCC’s claim that dangerous global warming is resulting, or will result, from human-related greenhouse gas emissions. Most notably, NIPCC’s authors say IPCC has exaggerated the amount of warming likely to occur if the concentration of atmospheric CO2 were to double, and such warming as occurs is likely to be modest and cause no net harm to the global environment or to human well-being. The principal findings from CCR II: Physical Science are summarized in Figure 1.

Idso, Craig; Carter, Robert; Singer, S. Fred. Why Scientists Disagree About Global Warming: Second Edition: The NIPCC Report on Scientific Consensus (pp. 32-33). Heartland Institute. Kindle Edition.

Figure 1 Summary of NIPCC’s Findings on Physical Science
· Atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) is a mild greenhouse gas that exerts a diminishing warming effect as its concentration increases.
· Doubling the concentration of atmospheric CO2 from its pre-industrial level, in the absence of other forcings and feedbacks, would likely cause a warming of ~0.3°C to 1.1°C, almost 50 percent of which must already have occurred.
· A few tenths of a degree of additional warming, should it occur, would not represent a climate crisis.
· Model outputs published in successive IPCC reports since 1990 project a doubling of CO2 could cause warming of up to 6°C by 2100. Instead, global warming ceased around the end of the twentieth century and was followed (since 1997) by 19 years of stable temperature.
· Over recent geological time, Earth’s temperature has fluctuated naturally between about +4°C and -6°C with respect to twentieth century temperature. A warming of 2°C above today, should it occur, falls within the bounds of natural variability.
· Though a future warming of 2°C would cause geographically varied ecological responses, no evidence exists that those changes would be net harmful to the global environment or to human well-being.
· At the current level of ~400 ppm we still live in a CO2-starved world. Atmospheric levels 15 times greater existed during the Cambrian Period (about 550 million years ago) without known adverse effects.
· The overall warming since about 1860 corresponds to a recovery from the Little Ice Age modulated by natural multidecadal cycles driven by ocean-atmosphere oscillations, or by solar variations at the de Vries (~208 year) and Gleissberg (~80 year) and shorter periodicities.
· Earth has not warmed significantly for the past 18 years despite an 8 percent increase in atmospheric CO2, which represents 34 percent of all extra CO2 added to the atmosphere since the start of the industrial revolution.
· No close correlation exists between temperature variation over the past 150 years and human-related CO2 emissions. The parallelism of temperature and CO2 increase between about 1980 and 2000 AD could be due to chance and does not necessarily indicate causation.
· The causes of historic global warming remain uncertain, but significant correlations exist between climate patterning and multidecadal variation and solar activity over the past few hundred years.
· Forward projections of solar cyclicity imply the next few decades may be marked by global cooling rather than warming, despite continuing CO2 emissions. Source: Idso, C.D., Carter, R.M., Singer, S.F. 2013. Executive Summary, Climate Change Reconsidered II: Physical Science. Chicago, IL: The Heartland Institute.

Idso, Craig; Carter, Robert; Singer, S. Fred. Why Scientists Disagree About Global Warming: Second Edition: The NIPCC Report on Scientific Consensus (pp. 34-36). Heartland Institute. Kindle Edition.
 
The EV movement is predicated on using less of the natural resources of planet earth and reducing the global carbon footprint of human beings.
The energy still has to be generated some how, yes not using fossil fuels directly but they might still be used in the generation of the electricity to charge your EV. The only green long term sources are wind, solar or tidal and still not doing enough tidal which is a guaranteed source unless the moon vanishes.

We need to take a smaller leap, ICE to EV is just a step to far.
 
If one were responsible for acting on scientific opinion, be it climate change, covid, vaccinations etc, one would have regard for the degree of consensus or support for a particular view.

One would also assess the risks associated of acting on a consensus view if subsequently proven wrong, and conversely the risks of ignoring a consensus view which ultimately proves correct.

97% is a very compelling opinion. The only real justification for ignoring it would be that the consequences of so doing were trivial. Climate change has the potential to be a major disruptor.

With respect to climate change:
  • that levels of CO2 have increased massively over the last 150 years seems beyond doubt
  • burning fossil fuels at a rate 1m times faster than laid down is a plausible explanation
  • that high levels of CO2 (and other greenhouse gases) impact climate is credible
  • that CO2 levels, sea levels, temperatures have been higher in the past is not disputed
  • the real issue is speed of change - 10bn human beings may be incapable of responding
 
there you go...

From the book: Why Scientists Disagree About Global Warming: Second Edition: The NIPCC Report on Scientific Consensus

Introduction
Probably the most widely repeated claim in the debate over global warming is that “97 percent of scientists agree” that climate change is man-made and dangerous. This claim is not only false, but its presence in the debate is an insult to science.

As the size of recent reports by the alarmist Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and its skeptical counterpart, the Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate (NIPCC) suggest, climate science is a complex and highly technical subject, making simplistic claims about what “all” or “most” scientists believe necessarily misleading. Regrettably, this hasn’t prevented various politicians and activists from proclaiming a “scientific consensus” or even “overwhelming scientific consensus” that human activities are responsible for observed climate changes in recent decades and could have “catastrophic” effects in the future.

The claim that “97 percent of scientists agree” appears on the websites of government agencies such as the U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA, 2015) and even respected scientific organizations such as the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS, n.d.), yet such claims are either false or meaningless.

Chapter 1 debunks surveys and abstract-counting exercises that allege to have found a “scientific consensus” in favor of the man-made global warming hypothesis and reports surveys that found no consensus on the most important issues in the debate. Chapter 2 explains why scientists disagree, finding the sources of disagreement in the interdisciplinary character of the issue, fundamental uncertainties concerning climate science, the failure of IPCC to be an independent and reliable source of research on the subject, and bias among researchers.

Chapter 3 explains the scientific method and contrasts it with the methodology used by IPCC and appeals to the “precautionary principle.” Chapter 4 describes flaws in how IPCC uses global climate models to make projections about present and future climate changes and reports the findings of superior models that foresee much less global warming and even cooling. Chapter 5 critiques five postulates or assumptions that underlie IPCC’s work, and Chapter 6 critiques five key pieces of circumstantial evidence relied on by IPCC. Chapter 7 reports the policy implications of these findings, and a brief summary and conclusion end this book.

Chapters 1 and 2 are based on previously published work by Joseph Bast (Bast, 2010, 2012, 2013; Bast and Spencer, 2014) that has been revised for this publication. Chapters 3 to 7 are based on the Summary for Policymakers of Climate Change Reconsidered II: Physical Science, an earlier volume in the same series as the present book produced by the Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC) (Idso, Carter, and Singer, 2013). Although brief, this summary of climate science is based on an exhaustive review of the scientific literature. Lead authors Craig D. Idso, Robert M. Carter, and S. Fred Singer worked with a team of some 50 scientists to produce a 1,200-page report that is comprehensive, objective, and faithful to the scientific method. It mirrors and rebuts IPCC’s Working Group I and Working Group II contributions to IPCC’s 2014 Fifth Assessment Report, or AR5 (IPCC, 2014). Like IPCC reports, NIPCC reports cite thousands of articles appearing in peer-reviewed science journals relevant to the subject of human-induced climate change.

NIPCC authors paid special attention to research that was either overlooked by IPCC or contains data, discussion, or implications arguing against IPCC’s claim that dangerous global warming is resulting, or will result, from human-related greenhouse gas emissions. Most notably, NIPCC’s authors say IPCC has exaggerated the amount of warming likely to occur if the concentration of atmospheric CO2 were to double, and such warming as occurs is likely to be modest and cause no net harm to the global environment or to human well-being. The principal findings from CCR II: Physical Science are summarized in Figure 1.

Idso, Craig; Carter, Robert; Singer, S. Fred. Why Scientists Disagree About Global Warming: Second Edition: The NIPCC Report on Scientific Consensus (pp. 32-33). Heartland Institute. Kindle Edition.

Figure 1 Summary of NIPCC’s Findings on Physical Science
· Atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) is a mild greenhouse gas that exerts a diminishing warming effect as its concentration increases.
· Doubling the concentration of atmospheric CO2 from its pre-industrial level, in the absence of other forcings and feedbacks, would likely cause a warming of ~0.3°C to 1.1°C, almost 50 percent of which must already have occurred.
· A few tenths of a degree of additional warming, should it occur, would not represent a climate crisis.
· Model outputs published in successive IPCC reports since 1990 project a doubling of CO2 could cause warming of up to 6°C by 2100. Instead, global warming ceased around the end of the twentieth century and was followed (since 1997) by 19 years of stable temperature.
· Over recent geological time, Earth’s temperature has fluctuated naturally between about +4°C and -6°C with respect to twentieth century temperature. A warming of 2°C above today, should it occur, falls within the bounds of natural variability.
· Though a future warming of 2°C would cause geographically varied ecological responses, no evidence exists that those changes would be net harmful to the global environment or to human well-being.
· At the current level of ~400 ppm we still live in a CO2-starved world. Atmospheric levels 15 times greater existed during the Cambrian Period (about 550 million years ago) without known adverse effects.
· The overall warming since about 1860 corresponds to a recovery from the Little Ice Age modulated by natural multidecadal cycles driven by ocean-atmosphere oscillations, or by solar variations at the de Vries (~208 year) and Gleissberg (~80 year) and shorter periodicities.
· Earth has not warmed significantly for the past 18 years despite an 8 percent increase in atmospheric CO2, which represents 34 percent of all extra CO2 added to the atmosphere since the start of the industrial revolution.
· No close correlation exists between temperature variation over the past 150 years and human-related CO2 emissions. The parallelism of temperature and CO2 increase between about 1980 and 2000 AD could be due to chance and does not necessarily indicate causation.
· The causes of historic global warming remain uncertain, but significant correlations exist between climate patterning and multidecadal variation and solar activity over the past few hundred years.
· Forward projections of solar cyclicity imply the next few decades may be marked by global cooling rather than warming, despite continuing CO2 emissions. Source: Idso, C.D., Carter, R.M., Singer, S.F. 2013. Executive Summary, Climate Change Reconsidered II: Physical Science. Chicago, IL: The Heartland Institute.

Idso, Craig; Carter, Robert; Singer, S. Fred. Why Scientists Disagree About Global Warming: Second Edition: The NIPCC Report on Scientific Consensus (pp. 34-36). Heartland Institute. Kindle Edition.
Ah - the NIPCC … an organisation funded by Exxon Mobil and the American Petroleum Institute. That’s unbiased then! :unsure:
 
I disagree with you. ICE refuelling and EV charging are both forms of fuel replenishment, without which neither vehicle type can move under its own motive power. A direct comparison of engine fuel types is one method by which people can assess the advantages and disadvantages of one form of motive power against the other. How else may a person judge the suitability of one vehicle type when measured against another?

The EV movement is predicated on using less of the natural resources of planet earth and reducing the global carbon footprint of human beings.
As yet, everything I have read about carbon dioxide and its absorption by plant life, in exchange for oxygen, appears to suggest that the planet has more than enough plant life, with enough spare capacity for absorbing the planet's carbon dioxide output. Notwithstanding the fact that the oceans also absorb 25% of planetary CO2 and generate 50% of the oxygen needs for the earth, while capturing 90% of the excess heat produced by these emissions (per the united Nations Climate action website).

What sources of information can lay people trust to be accurate factually and give the public sufficient information to make a judgement call? The act of refuelling an ICE engined vehicle has an analog in EVs, which is charging them. How is this comparison not valid? What are the comparators with which you would suggest that we replace the comparison of refuelling?
You missed my point. The way you refuel is fundamentally different so applying the concept of a refueling station (petrol station) that needs to service many vehicles with a fast refill to EV is flawed. EV will be charged at home, at the shops, at the pub, at the restaurant, at the train station, in a car park. Over time there will be many opportunities during normal use to top up the EV while you get on with other daily activities. The need for a bulk delivery station that you drive to will be the exception rather than the rule it is for ICE.
There are actually very few use cases where you need to completely re charge the EV on a journey. For sure they will occur but for me it’s probably been ten years since I exceeded the range of a modern EV on a single trip.
 
The energy still has to be generated some how, yes not using fossil fuels directly but they might still be used in the generation of the electricity to charge your EV. The only green long term sources are wind, solar or tidal and still not doing enough tidal which is a guaranteed source unless the moon vanishes.

We need to take a smaller leap, ICE to EV is just a step to far.
Agreed! We are in danger of emulating Orwell's Animal Farm ~ "four legs good, two legs bad" The argument for the use of EVs is similar... EVs good, ICE bad. enforcing EVs on a population thrpough legislation and ignoring the multiple different requirements of people is folly. There has been very little open public debate about the necessity to move in the EV direction rapidly and this is despite the complete lack of infrastructure.
 
Ah - the NIPCC … an organisation funded by Exxon Mobil and the American Petroleum Institute. That’s unbiased then!:unsure:
Sauce for the goose eh? Do I understand it correctly... that your own opinion concerning EVs is unbiased then? Unbiased opinions do not exist despite their provenance. Debating opinions is always a fruitless pursuit and I prefer not to waste valuable time engaging in such frivolity. onwards...

Do I understand you correctly? That you would dismiss any and all of the scientific papers written by eminent PhD qualified climatologists, just because you happen to dislike the funding sources which permitted them to have a voice?

This is a bit like the people from Just Stop Oil; who marched through our streets disrupting the lives of as many people as they could manage, while carrying signs made from plastic! Any competent scientist would tell you that plastic is produced from crude oil.

Please tell me what were the funding sources for every one of the EVs are good arguments which you have accepted and internalised? We could dissect the motivations of the suppliers of the funds and dismiss any arguments we do not wish to hear, based upon nothing more than where the protagonists obtained their funds. Pretty pointless as an exercise isn't it? It does not alter facts and despite a bias in their presentation, the facts can and do exist outside of the opinions of the parties who would have you believe in their own special version of the facts.

EDIT: spelling corrections
 
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So if not enough scientists agree it is not true. But if too man scientists agree it is a conspiracy?

sheesh, who could take your argument seriousl?
I am not responsible for your own interpretation of what I mean. The clue lies in your own comments. Science advances only because it is open to further question and it does not proceed on a show of hands.

I pointed out that in a lifetime of working in a field of science, it is highly unusual to find consensus to the extraordinary degree that the complex field of climate change appears to engender. That is to say that scientists working in the multiple technical fields related to climate change all have undergone the identical epiphany simultaneously and all have become believers in climate change at one and the same time. That proposition does not withstand scrutiny.

Consider what you know about the complexities of human behaviour and then consider whether this notion of mass conversion to one idea is likely. That is tantamount to a religious awakening (or a cult). Useful debate should be informed. You have extended my point to an extreme far beyond a point which I was trying to make and that is not a rational form of argument.

EDIT: formatting corrections
 
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So where do you stand on evolution? Do enough scientists believe in that or do the one or two who don't make you think it's not a real thing? Do you maybe think the earth is flat after all? - there are one or two cuckoos with science qualifications who do...
97% isn't that high a percentage if it's real - I imagine more than 97% think that oxygen is necessary for animals to live, would you think that an unrealistic number of believers?
Just out of interest, what field of science did you work in and what were your qualifications / job titles / papers published?
Is that you Jethro? He was one of my all time favourite comedians. Jethro would have appreciated the next sentence. The cornflakes in your bowl are floating in your own urine. I consider your questions needless and impertinent, for they imply that you do not trust anything I say because I have not demonstrated that I measure up to your very high standards before being permitted to make a valid comment. I may choose to answer you with the following proviso…

You first publish on this forum your educational history, your employment history with all relevant job titles, your particular area of expertise along with all of your publications. You must include the contact details of four professional referees with whom I may establish your professional credentials. So that I may be sure that I am talking to a real person, rather than an AI simulacrum of yourself, please be kind enough to detail your membership of every institution, organisation and governmental body to which you have belonged during the course of your life. I will then be able to follow them up and track whether you are a genuine person.

Follow these simple requests and I will possibly choose to answer your rude questions.

EDIT: insert missing word
 
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You missed my point.
My apologies. I had no evil intent.
The way you refuel is fundamentally different so applying the concept of a refueling station (petrol station) that needs to service many vehicles with a fast refill to EV is flawed. EV will be charged at home,
Possibly... if the person can fit the necessary charging device to their home. They may be living in an apartment block on an upper floor which could make that more of a difficult proposition. If they are in rented accommodation, they may not be permitted to fit a charging point.
at the shops,
Maybe… but the charging infrastructure you envisage does not appear to be design ed to service numerous requests. Look at the banks of charging stations at a motorway service stop. Look at the people waiting to charge their EVs. Is this the nirvana to which you would have everyone subscribe?
at the pub,
Hardly ideal. Politicians have been trying to curb consumer alcohol consumption combined with car use for decades. The seal of approval that placing an EV charge point in a pub car park would present is not a message that the virtual signalling authorities would wish to be widely seen.
at the restaurant,
Many restaurants do not even provide adequate car parking spaces for their patrons. Do you envisage we pay to eat at one establishment while using the charging provision made by a different establishment?
at the train station,
How long would a modern EV be at the charging point at a staion, ostensibly just topping up?
in a car park.
EVs and car parks is a vexed question. EVs in confined spaces is also vexed question. One would hope that this adoption of charging points in car parks is going to be slow… until the fire risk of EVs has been properly evaluated.
Over time there will be many opportunities during normal use to top up the EV while you get on with other daily activities.
Perhaps this will come to pass but it is not yet with us or society at large.
The need for a bulk delivery station that you drive to will be the exception rather than the rule it is for ICE.
There are actually very few use cases where you need to completely re charge the EV on a journey. For sure they will occur but for me it’s probably been ten years since I exceeded the range of a modern EV on a single trip.
My use case was a potential 600 miles in one day. Should your use case be taken as the norm?
 
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