Electric vehicles

[Spectric]

He was in Dartmoor, but it does highlight the hit and miss nature of charging. That program might tell you where the chargers are but does it tell you if it is working and not been vandalised ? The other problem is going to be the number of chargers required, you cannot replace one petrol pump with one EV charger because it just will not cope, if you think it takes 10 minutes to fill and pay for petrol but 30 minutes for an EV then all they need is three times the number of chargers but at 50Kw each this is going to exceed what a motorway service station can provide so back to infrastructure. There was some petrol station on the A120 that had the big fast chargers but not connected due to supply issues yet within sight of a grid substation so think about the service stations not near a major town.

 

[paulrbarnard]

He was in Dartmoor, but it does highlight the hit and miss nature of charging. That program might tell you where the chargers are but does it tell you if it is working and not been vandalised ? The other problem is going to be the number of chargers required, you cannot replace one petrol pump with one EV charger because it just will not cope, if you think it takes 10 minutes to fill and pay for petrol but 30 minutes for an EV then all they need is three times the number of chargers but at 50Kw each this is going to exceed what a motorway service station can provide so back to infrastructure. There was some petrol station on the A120 that had the big fast chargers but not connected due to supply issues yet within sight of a grid substation so think about the service stations not near a major town.

Still neglecting the fact that 93% of EVs are charged at home, how many ICE are refuelled at home? That actually suggests that there needs to be LESS public charge points that fuel pumps. For sure the ratios will change over time but so will reliability and availability of public chargers

 

[MikeJhn]

The charge time of EV's is a moot point, I never let my car get too empty before I re-fuel, so feel that EV drivers will do the same, therefore, the moot point.

 

[Vulcan]

As I've said previously, My son has no off street parking and more often than not can't park anywhere even close to his front door, often has to be in one of the other streets, he needs his car for work and could just about get away with an EV with public chargeng though his office has now parking at all let alone charging points. His wife is a specialist nurse, often on call and certainly can't use an EV with no guaranteed charging point just as she might need her car to be charged ready for use at odd hours, there are many like her.

Just to clarify my situation as well, I'm not anti EV though I certainly won't be spending the huge sum required to replace my current car when I could buy the equivalent ICE / mild hybrid version for £15k less.

I paid just over £20K for my car about six years ago. I saw an advert for a modest size Toyota on social media the other day that I liked the look of, and the starting price was £32K going up to £43K, which is close to Tesla territory. BYD and Tesla both claim to be selling sub $25K EV’s within the next couple of years. If this is true then the only new car I’m likely to be able to afford is going to be an EV?

 

[Vulcan]

Did anybody else read Matt Rudd's column in the Sunday Times yesterday about his EV experiences?

No. But I have read about a few folks that didn’t really think through whether an Electric Vehicle suited their transport needs. Buying or leasing a vehicle without considering where and how you are going to charge it is tantamount to stupidity to my mind. For those that drive long distances on a regular basis I would have thought a petrol vehicle would be best. It would certainly be my choice.

 

[Spectric]

For those that drive long distances on a regular basis I would have thought a petrol vehicle would be best. It would certainly be my choice.

Or why not a hybrid, yes a bigger outlay but a good compromise and something you will not have the worry about finding charging points. It is ok to say most will be charged at home but not much use if traveling any distance because you will need to re charge somewhere.

 

[Vulcan]

Or why not a hybrid, yes a bigger outlay but a good compromise and something you will not have the worry about finding charging points. It is ok to say most will be charged at home but not much use if traveling any distance because you will need to re charge somewhere.

More expensive as you say. Some are plug-ins that can be charged at home, some are not. I suspect being the most complex of vehicles currently available that servicing costs could be high? For short journeys, until the battery goes flat they may be a good option for some, provided it’s a plug in. From what I’ve read Hybrids are the most likely type of car to catch fire at the moment as well. If I need a replacement before the cost of EV’s drop I’ll buy another petrol car.

 

[Just4Fun]

Or why not a hybrid, yes a bigger outlay but a good compromise and something you will not have the worry about finding charging points.

I have been changing my mind about this. My knee-jerk reaction was that a hybrid has such a limited range that it would be a joke for my use. Now I think I might be looking at it the wrong way. OK, so a hybrid might only do 15% of my typical daily driving on batteries, but that would be 15% for which I would not need to buy fossil fuel. This would reduce my fuel cost and require fewer refuelling stops. It should be a simple calculation to show how long I would have to own the hybrid for the fuel saving to cover the additional purchase price. Also I could easily charge a hybrid from my domestic electricity supply without the cost of installing a full charging point, which might not be the case for a fully electric vehicle.

For me the ideal would be a vehicle I could charge at home and never (or very rarely) need to charge away from home. That is not possible currently, at least not within my budget, but maybe I should consider a hybrid.

 

[Vulcan]

“Also I could easily charge a hybrid from my domestic electricity supply without the cost of installing a full charging point, which might not be the case for a fully electric vehicle.”

I’m not sure how well that will work? You certainly can charge an EV from a 13 amp socket it just takes a very long time. Whether it would charge the much smaller battery in a Hybrid to be of any use I don’t know. Certainly worth further investigation?

 

[Lons]

Still neglecting the fact that 93% of EVs are charged at home, how many ICE are refuelled at home? That actually suggests that there needs to be LESS public charge points that fuel pumps. For sure the ratios will change over time but so will reliability and availability of public chargers

Without me searching for detail as I have other more productive things to do, I would question the accuracy of those figures as apparently around 23% of UK housing stock is terraced and reportedly only 70% of UkK houses have off street parking which if correct mwans there can never be 93% charging at home. I suggest that's probably based on current EV ownership though stats can be viewed in multiple ways.

Also another issue with home charging is that many households have multiple vehicles and you can, without heavy expenditure and subject to power availability, charge ony one at a time.

 

[Vulcan]

Without me searching for detail as I have other more productive things to do, I would question the accuracy of those figures as apparently around 23% of UK housing stock is terraced and reportedly only 70% of UkK houses have off street parking which if correct mwans there can never be 93% charging at home. I suggest that's probably based on current EV ownership though stats can be viewed in multiple ways.

Yes, the 93% is of course based on current EV ownership.

From what I’ve read two thirds of uk housing have their own drive (how do they know this?) and at least another 10% have access to off street parking. If 93% of the current 1 million EV’s in the UK are only charging one vehicle then there must be 930,000 private chargers currently in use?! Sounds like a lot. If of course each charger at a particular property is charging two vehicles then it’s obviously half that unless some properties have the ability to run two chargers? I believe you need a minimum 60 amp supply at present to install a charger? Obviously things like chargers are still under development and subject to change, as are the batteries they will be charging. When I looked my property had a 100 amp fuse in the box so presumably I could install one of the current (pun intended) type of chargers.

I believe the current 93% ( there’s that pun again) are probably doing this not just for the convenience of charging at home, but also because of the cost. Charging at home, at night, is apparently half the cost per mile compared to buying petrol or diesel.

 

[Spectric]

Also I could easily charge a hybrid from my domestic electricity supply without the cost of installing a full charging point, which might not be the case for a fully electric vehicle.

I think a lot of hybrids are self charging so no need for any charging point. There are so called plug in hybrids which I don't get the concept of as the engine should keep the battery charged.

 

[Vulcan]

A quick Google on chargers.

https://rightcharge.co.uk/guides/ho... a dual,into the same charger simultaneously.

 

[Vulcan]

I think a lot of hybrids are self charging so no need for any charging point. There are so called plug in hybrids which I don't get the concept of as the engine should keep the battery charged.

This article may be of interest? I did see a discussion on social media some time ago where a couple of guys were talking of the amazing MPG they were getting from their Hybrids. Both had the same car and one claimed over 80mpg whist the other 100mpg. A quick Google and the real world mileage according to a motoring organisation was actually under 50mph.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2020/10/24/dont-fall-for-the-self-charging-hybrid-con/

 

[bilboburgler]

The daughter of a friend is a Professor of Energy and Motorised systems (did her PhD on this subject) and says that the damage to battery ilfe issue is falling away as we get better at building them. Still if it were a problem in cars, how can they sell house batteries????

 

[RogerS]

Did anybody else read Matt Rudd's column in the Sunday Times yesterday about his EV experiences?

Behind a paywall for many of us. How was it ? Good/bad/curate's ?

 

[Just4Fun]

You certainly can charge an EV from a 13 amp socket it just takes a very long time. Whether it would charge the much smaller battery in a Hybrid to be of any use I don’t know.

My son recently bought a hybrid. He can charge it from a normal domestic supply in about 2.5 hours, which would be OK for me.

 

[RogerS]

Still neglecting the fact that 93% of EVs are charged at home, how many ICE are refuelled at home? That actually suggests that there needs to be LESS public charge points that fuel pumps. For sure the ratios will change over time but so will reliability and availability of public chargers

Ever stopped to ask why is it 93% ? Maybe it's because there aren't easy ways to charge the EV if you can't do it at home ! Not filling ones car up at home is a specious argument. Why ? Here's why...

You have an ICE car. It's parked in the street ...quite likely a long way from your house as you've hunted around for 10-15 minutes trying to find a parking place after work. You need to go to work so you hop in, pop into the garage to get fuel, ten minutes later your on your way.

You have an EV car. It's parked in the street ...quite likely a long way from your house as you've hunted around for 10-15 minutes trying to find a parking place after work. You gave up trying to find a charging point as they were all occupied. Occupied by owners who are 'just topping up'. So now you have to hunt around to find an empty charging point and spend an hour (or more) getting a charge.

Take alook at that photo I posted. Assume 25% of all those cars are EV's. 50% ? I just can't see how it's going to work.

 

[Just4Fun]

I think a lot of hybrids are self charging so no need for any charging point. There are so called plug in hybrids which I don't get the concept of as the engine should keep the battery charged.

Yes, now that you mention it I think you are right; some (many?) hybrids are self-charging. I had forgotten that.

I don't share your view about plug-in hybrids though. To me, that makes perfect sense. For me the attraction of any form of electric propulsion is to avoid fossil fuel use. Mainly to reduce running costs and also to reduce the number of re-fuelling stops that are needed. I don't get the concept of having an electric motor and burning fossil fuel to generate the power for it. What do you gain by doing that?

 

[Spectric]

I don't share your view about plug-in hybrids though. To me, that makes perfect sense. For me the attraction of any form of electric propulsion is to avoid fossil fuel use.

But a plug in hybrid still retains the ICE so burns fossil fuel.