Electric vehicles

[selectortone]

It sounds like she is utterly unsustainable and a complete contradiction in terms. It's become known as "greenwashing".

I have thought about this comment for two days now, and still can't get my head around it.

My daughter studied ecology at university and then went on to do an MSc in sustainability. She worked unbelievably hard at her Masters, holding down a day job and studying at night for two years for it. I'm very proud of her. She cares very deeply about the future of the planet and changed careers to do a job that she believes makes a difference, albeit a small one. Reports she produces help companies improve their environmental footprint and reduce the damage they do.

How you expect her to do a site audit of companies' energy usage, waste management et al without physically attending is debatable, but to flippantly dismiss her life's work as "greenwashing" is highly insulting. I can take your insults, but leave my daughter out of it.

Your post just demonstrates what a nasty spiteful troll you are.

 

[Jacob]

I have thought about this comment for two days now, and still can't understand it.

My daughter studied ecology at university and then went on to do a masters in sustainability. She cares very deeply about the future of the planet and is doing a job that she believes makes a difference, albeit a small one.

How you expect her to do a site audit of companies' energy usage, waste management et al without physically attending is debatable, but to flippantly dismiss her life's work as "greenwashing" is highly insulting. I can take your insults, but leave my daughter out of it.

Your post just demonstrates what a venal nasty troll you are.

Sorry - I intended to insult the company, not your daughter!
A lot of companies are spending big money on "greenwashing", including the oil industry itself.
Could be a way of avoiding the real issues and ignoring the necessary major changes being forced upon is by Climate change.

 

[John Brown]

You will now need the meter to communicate with the car, these meters have issues with communicating at the best of times.

I don't believe that's the case. I think it's usually a simple current transformer(CT) around one of the supply tails which measures the total load, or indeed export, if you have PV.

 

[selectortone]

I don't believe that's the case. I think it's usually a simple current transformer(CT) around one of the supply tails which measures the total load, or indeed export, if you have PV.

I don't have a smart meter. The Podpoint charger communicates via a phone app and provides all the info we need. It has a dumb two-wire connection (plus earth and a circuit breaker, fuses etc) to my electrical system.

 

[John Brown]

I don't have a smart meter. The Podpoint charger communicates via a phone app and provides all the info we need. It has a dumb two-wire connection (plus earth and a circuit breaker, fuses etc) to my electrical system.

That's great, but I was specifically referring to a discussion about chargers which respond on the fly to the usage of other appliances, such as dryers or kettles. Spectric was theorising that such chargers would need to communicate with smart meters, and I was explaining that, as far as I know, they don't. As to why you might need such a device: your property has a limited electricity supply, and you already have an induction cooker, electric shower, ASHP heating etc., or maybe you have solar panels, and want to charge while the sun's shining.

As an aside, we call them "chargers", but they're really just switched power supplies. The charging intelligence is all in the car.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

In the fullness of time (probably not far off) there will be a simple smartphone app to control EV charging which will need inputs for:

• level of charge required - next day simple commute will justify only a 30% charge, a long journey next day may mean charging to 100%. User could always default to 100% charge anyway.
• price per KWh - eg: charge when price is less than XXp
• if PV fitted - prioritise - (1) household appliances, (2) car charging, (3) sale to grid
• integrate with domestic energy tariff terms - variable 30 min charges, peak/off-peak rates, etc
• integrate with forecast demand, weather impacts, green energy generation, pricing

This is all completely feasible. Data connectivity between house, car, electricity supplier, forecast price, weather (affects range), traffic conditions etc may need some improvement for resilient performance but is not insuperable.

Alternatively EV users can simply get home, plug in, and pay whatever it costs. Needs no internet connection (unless EV charging is taxed), but as plug in will be at a peak demand time (17.00 - 21.00 hrs) costs will be materially higher.

 

[Spectric]

Spectric was theorising that such chargers would need to communicate with smart meters, and I was explaining that, as far as I know, they don't.

The only other way a smart charger would know the demand that the property is currently using would be it's own transducer that is either hard wired or using wireless to the charger but if the charger is restricted by other demands then it is possible that it may not fully charge your EV. If all the charging inteligence is within the car then why not also have the AC - Dc conversion within the car so all you would now require is a cable to supply 230Vac.

 

[selectortone]

If all the charging inteligence is within the car then why not also have the AC - Dc conversion within the car so all you would now require is a cable to supply 230Vac

My charge point IS ac 230v. Ac to dc conversion is done by the car. All modern EVs do this. The difference is that it is a dedicated 30A connection capable of charging at 7kW, as opposed charging from my 13A ring main (at around 3kW).

 

[Spectric]

A lot of companies are spending big money on "greenwashing", including the oil industry itself.

Does this not also give them financial benefits so it is worth trying to camourflage dirty ones like oil & nuclear.

 

[selectortone]

Here's a screen shot of the charger app...

 

[Spectric]

My charge point IS ac 230v. Ac to dc conversion is done by the car. All modern EVs do this.

So why the special plugs that are not common to all EV's, much easier to just use a standard plug.

 

[John Brown]

The only other way a smart charger would know the demand that the property is currently using would be it's own transducer that is either hard wired or using wireless to the charger but if the charger is restricted by other demands then it is possible that it may not fully charge your EV. If all the charging inteligence is within the car then why not also have the AC - Dc conversion within the car so all you would now require is a cable to supply 230Vac.

The AC to DC conversion is in the car, in all but the super fast chargepoints.

 

[John Brown]

The chargepoint also supplied 1kHz PWM signal that indicates to the charging system (in the car) his much current is available. The PWM signal goes negative and positive with respect to ground. I imagine this provides a bit more safety, being slightly more complex than a positive only waveform.

 

[John Brown]

The only other way a smart charger would know the demand that the property is currently using would be it's own transducer that is either hard wired or using wireless to the charger but if the charger is restricted by other demands then it is possible that it may not fully charge your EV. If all the charging inteligence is within the car then why not also have the AC - Dc conversion within the car so all you would now require is a cable to supply 230Vac.

As for it's own transducer, that's what I was trying to tell you about the current transformer on the incoming supply. I guess you didn't bother reading it.

 

[Spectric]

The chargepoint also supplied 1kHz PWM signal that indicates to the charging system (in the car) his much current is available

I assume this is superimposed on the Ac as from what I have seen there are not enough pins for a seperate circuit. Again there may be easier ways for the EV to determine available current but EV chargers are going to make some people very wealthy.

 

[Spectric]

I guess you didn't bother reading it.

Having spent a lifetime in engineering I read everything

 

[John Brown]

It's all documented . J1772 I think. Alternatively Wikipedia has details. There is also a safeguard against you driving off while plugged in, which a standard mains plug wouldn't provide.

Edited as I mistyped the reference..
And again.. my fingers are very clumsy today!

 

[John Brown]

I assume this is superimposed on the Ac as from what I have seen there are not enough pins for a seperate circuit. Again there may be easier ways for the EV to determine available current but EV chargers are going to make some people very wealthy.

No. It's a separate signal.

 

[John Brown]

I assume this is superimposed on the Ac as from what I have seen there are not enough pins for a seperate circuit. Again there may be easier ways for the EV to determine available current but EV chargers are going to make some people very wealthy.

Interesting. How dou you think the EV might determine available current from a 3 wire mains feed?

 

[selectortone]

So why the special plugs that are not common to all EV's, much easier to just use a standard plug.

Why are the mains plugs different in many countries? Why do they serve beer in different measures around the world?

There are moves to standardise EV connectors but don't hold your breath. Adapters are available.