Edge jointing without a cambered blade.

[Sgian Dubh]

Mike, I'm not sure I entirely follow the lateral lever adjustment method you described.

Sometimes a board edge will have a high spot that runs diagonally, for example, from the beginning of the cut at the far right corner to the end of the cut at the near left corner-- in winding. I'm assuming right handed plane use for this description

That's where I'll use the tilting plane technique.

I tilt the top of the plane a bit to the right at the beginning of the cut. Then let the plane level out in the middle. Lastly I tilt the top of the plane a bit to the left at the end of the cut. It's all done in one pass.

I can't see how adjusting the blade to stick out more on one side or the other of the sole and leaving it at that setting to the end of the cut would fix the in winding problem.

I'd want to adjust which corner of the blade sticks out from the sole of the plane as it progresses along the edge. But I can't do that as both hands are gripping the handles, and even if I could adjust as the blade moves I couldn't tell by how much I'd made an adjustment.

That's why I tilt the plane one way or another as I travel the length of the edge.

I'm not really sure how I learnt the tilting plane trick though. I can only think that by having to regularly prepare truly rough sawn wood square many moons ago entirely by hand I learnt to read the edge squareness in relation to a true face quite well. I suppose I got the knack for tilting a plane during initial squaring of the very out of square edges to get them close to square in the first few cuts.

I can only guess that the ability I seem to have to tilt a plane fairly accurately by a 1/4 or a 1/2º is a refinement or extension of that long ago learnt knack for getting an edge square to a face. Slainte.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Chris, we're not talking about major bending of the sole, just a hair or so. I've never tried to measure the bend I can force or twist into the sole of a plane. I just know it can be bent a bit-- enough anyway to make a differenc to the thickness of shaving that's taken.

I've never tried to bend the sole of anything shorter than a metal jack plane. But I'm darned sure I can bend the sole of a No. 7 or No. 8, metal plane, especially at either end of the sole where the reinforcement (U shaped channel body) peters out.

I've never been able (as far as I'm aware) to bend a sole enough in the length to cause permanent damage to any of the parts.

Everything has to have a bit of flexibility in it, even cast iron or steel girders, otherwise there'd surely be no strength in structures. For instance, even skyscrapers, made of metal girders flex and give in winds. If they didn't they'd surely be brittle and crack at the slightest shock. Well, that's my theory anyway, ha, ha. Slainte.

 

[mr]

But I'm darned sure I can bend the sole of a No. 7 or No. 8, metal plane, especially at either end of the sole where the reinforcement (U shaped channel body) peters out.
.

That sounds like quite a feat of strength to me, though if you say it's so then I won't doubt you - though I am wondering whether the force you're inputing to the ends of the plane is resulting in a change to your technique rather than a flex in the plane body itself. Of course if that was the case I suspect it would reproduce the effect regardless of plane length unless the body length has some kind of effect on the result as well.
Cheers Mike

 

[Wiley Horne]

Richard's description (Sgian Dubh) is the clearest description I have seen for the method I have evolved to. It's satisfying because it's so freestyle. Woodie jointers seem to be particularly well adapted to it (although I love Richard's method of bending his metal jointer!) because they are so light and manueverable, and are instantly biased one way or the other with thumb pressure from the lead hand.

There are many paths to the same goal--each should find his/her own.

Thanks for bringing up this topic, Philly, it's a favorite!

Wiley

 

[engineer one]

at the risk of being called a philistine, what about the LV fence
which you attach with the rare earth magnets. surely the whole aim
of that is to allow you to create an edge which is at right angles
to the face ????

i believe it is also called a jointer fence :lol: :lol:

i have seen and tried dc's method with him there at
axminster show last year, and agree that it does work,
but, not for every one i think, it relies too much on a developed skill
which few have time to master.

why not plane two boards on a long shooting board, but laid flat???

paul :wink:

 

[Paul Kierstead]

at the risk of being called a philistine, what about the LV fence
which you attach with the rare earth magnets. surely the whole aim
of that is to allow you to create an edge which is at right angles
to the face ????

Philistine.



I have one and use it occasionally. I find with a large heavy plane, it is more difficult then expected to keep the fence against the face of the board. Additionally the plane is off balance exacerbating the problem. Furthermore, it tends to run into the vise for a narrow board. But all that said, it works well under some conditions, especially on those days I don't seem to be able to see straight. Last couple of times I use it, it was ok. I hate it when I forget to check for the vise thing though, and run into it hard...


there are also those 90 degree plane thingies. I got the LV one, and think it is large a POS, but who knows...

 

[Alf]

there are also those 90 degree plane thingies.

I wish folks wouldn't use such technical jargon... :wink:

Cheers, Alf

 

[mudman]

Philistine.

Isn't that what Philly drinks his beer out of? :roll:

Jeff Gorman has an article on plane body deflection here so the bending of the plane in use doesn't sound all that far-fetched.

 

[Paul Chapman]

As the first one on this thread to question the "Charlesworth" technique, I want to say that I have just watched David Charlesworth's DVD and I am impressed.

When I read his book, I just didn't get what he was on about. Having seen the DVD and seen that he is talking about a couple of fag papers-worth of hollowness, and his curved blade approach is part if a methodical, precision technique, it has all become clear.

It really is a good DVD and an example of how difficult it can be to explain a technique in words alone, whereas when you see it in action it becomes crystal clear.

I would certainly recommend the DVD to anyone starting out with planing or having problems in squaring up a piece of wood. David is a very good teacher who explains very clearly what he is doing and why. And he is talking about the nth degree of precision.

Am I an instant convert? I don't think so - but there is much food for thought in what he advocates and I think my planing will gain a lot from having seen his DVD.

Paul

 

[bugbear]

I can only guess that the ability I seem to have to tilt a plane fairly accurately by a 1/4 or a 1/2º is a refinement or extension of that long ago learnt knack for getting an edge square to a face. Slainte.

That's amazing. A 1/4 degree slant on a 5 inch high tote results in the top of the tote moving by tan(1/4) * 5" = 0.02" (2 hundredths).

BugBear

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I've no idea what the exact angle is Paul. I've never bothered with doing sums on the technique nor even measured the angle I tilt by. I just seem to be able to work out that the high side of an edge needs a bit off about 'like that', or perhaps a bit less or more at about 'something like that.' And sometimes a bit of tilting is required in different directions at different points in the length.

I also mentioned in an earlier post taking a half width shaving off a high edge by hanging the plane to one side so that the corner of the blade travels somewhere down the middle of the edge width.

Combine these two techniques with the other technique I'm pretty sure I accomplish of slightly bending the sole every now and then and I find I can create edges suitable for edge joinery with success reasonably quickly on most occasions. It's not always easy and I do get it wrong from time to time. On those occassions where things aren't working as they should I have to stop, work out where I'm going wrong and correct the errors. It happens to all of us.

I'm not saying the method I use is the only correct method. There are plenty of others, eg, the curved or cambered blade method that's been getting a fresh airing over the last couple or three years. I was shown and practised the technique some years ago. I can get it to work pretty well but I don't use it now unless I come across a worker or learners plane that's got a curved blade and I'm demonstrating edge joinery techniques to them with their plane.

The curved blade technique I'd guess came about because the tools in the workshops I was in when I started in this line of work were all pretty much sharpened on oilstones. There weren't really many other choices except abrasive paper on a flat surface, or a rare imported Arkansas stone or something else exotic.

Pretty much all the reasonably well used, or very well used oilstones I ever came across at that time tended to be a bit hollow anyway-- they automatically tended to put a slight curve on a cutting edge. Certainly my own oilstones got slightly hollow and stayed that way most of the time in the days when I used oilstones. It's been at least a couple of decades since I used oilstones regularly and I use ceramic stones now. I find I have to intentionally put a curve on a blade with these sharpening stones if it's a curved blade I want.

Anyway, all I know is I can usually tilt a plane ever so slightly to make an adjustment and bring the edge of the wood back square to the face. It was only around the mid '80's that I realised I could do this pretty well to quite fine tolerances but, by then, I'd been fooling around with planes and wood on and off for nearly twenty years. Slainte.

 

[Colin C]

I can only guess that the ability I seem to have to tilt a plane fairly accurately by a 1/4 or a 1/2º is a refinement or extension of that long ago learnt knack for getting an edge square to a face. Slainte.

That's amazing. A 1/4 degree slant on a 5 inch high tote results in the top of the tote moving by tan(1/4) * 5" = 0.02" (2 hundredths).

BugBear

:-s my head hurts :?

 

[Frank D.]

I also mentioned in an earlier post taking a half width shaving off a high edge by hanging the plane to one side so that the corner of the blade travels somewhere down the middle of the edge width.

That's the technique I use, along with flexing the plane (sometimes) when I want a sprung joint. As of late I usually start off a rough edge with my #5 which has a cambered blade (about 1/16"); I try to get it fairly square and out of wind before I go at it with a jointer, so I guess I use several techniques to get there. Starting off with a jack speeds up things quite a bit and keeps my jointer sharper for longer.

 

[MikeW]

I just know it can be bent a bit--

...along with flexing the plane (sometimes) when I want a sprung joint...

So that's why I see vintage planes with cracked cheeks at the mouths...

Take care, Mike
duckin' 'n' runnin'...again...

 

[Frank D.]

So that's why I see vintage planes with cracked cheeks at the mouths...

Take care, Mike
duckin' 'n' runnin'...again...

You obviously haven't seen my jointer, Mike. It started out as a #8, but with a little judicious tuning, no cracked cheeks in my shop:

 

[Philly]

ROTFL :lol:
Philly

 

[MikeW]

So that's why I see vintage planes with cracked cheeks at the mouths...

Take care, Mike
duckin' 'n' runnin'...again...

You obviously haven't seen my jointer, Mike. It started out as a #8, but with a little judicious tuning, no cracked cheeks in my shop:

Now that is a good one. Judicious use of a file, I would say...

Thanks, Frank!

 

[Alf]

Frank, are you quite sure you've grasped which way the camber's supposed to go...? :lol: :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[bugbear]

I've no idea what the exact angle is Paul. I've never bothered with doing sums on the technique nor even measured the angle I tilt by.

Oh.

O.K.

I was going by what you said, which was rather specific as to the angular accuracy you're working to.

BugBear

 

[Wiley Horne]

The proof of the pudding....In context, the accuracy Sgian Dubh was talking about is the amount required to make the edge join disappear. The precision associated with this accuracy is the ability to do it again and again, in somewhat the same number of strokes. I suspect his intuitive estimates are conservative--in the context of edge joining.


Wiley